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Josh Goldberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2065
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Posted: 28 September 2014 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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If we factor out couples that were created by others, like the aforementioned Reed and Sue, that JB was just continuing, and just focus on romances where at least one of the characters are JB creations...I don't recall a lot of people looking for love outside of their general age group.
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Tim O Neill Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10918
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Posted: 28 September 2014 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's ridiculous that this has even become an issue -- it has nothing to do with the actual context and everything to do with people fishing for a way to blow JB off the map. Alan Moore prints outright pornography depicting underage girls and he is still a hero to comic readers, and JB is skewered over crushes?
The examples cited above are innocent puppy love that is depicted poignantly from a young girl's perspective. I'm not surprised to find that JB has been complimented by women on these stories - young girls go through some pretty intense emotions, while us boys were just obsessed with sex. Boys were mercifully free from emotions, until we got rejected!! Then we had to learn!
When we examine the full body of JB's work, he is responsible for depicting female characters in a much more empowered light than had come before. Sue Richards was not a realistic nor interesting character for a long time before JB made her strong, interesting and a real hero. She-Hulk busted boundaries with her own title, and JB's comedic take had her literally bursting through pages! Toni Murcheson is my favorite character in NEXT MEN, and only got better when the title returned.
The criticism is not about age difference - it's a cruel attack on JB by people who have publicly tussled with JB and they are dead set on revenge. JB does not back down from the truth here on the Forum, and he never has. I love his rebel spirit and seeming inability to play nice with people who cross the line, so there are hurt feelings out there. But he does not deserve this kind of smear by a long shot. It says more about the people reading this into his work than JB.
This take on his work originated from a very familiar face to those who have followed JB online comments, all the way back to the Magnus board. A forum member who fancies himself something of a professor published an online article some time ago accusing JB of inappropriate relationships in his work. It was a hatchet job by someone who had written THOUSANDS of posts praising JB, until he and JB got into an argument and JB told him he has "sand in his vagina". This was in the Magnus days, so we don't have a record of all the fawning he did before this, but there was also a darker side to this guy. He was spending way too much time on the forum. He started to get too.... close to the internet and it was impacting his real personal life. In light of his personal life imploding and a JB conflict, he lashed out at JB. Which is to be expected, I guess. I tried to give him a wide berth at first - he was always an irrational wreck. But what kind of emotional imbalance causes someone to continue to go after JB more than a decade down the road? Seriously, who is still grinding an ax seven to ten years down the road? It's crazy.
It's not just spurned lovers from the Forum that brought this on - it's JB's comments on the DSM and Marvel editorial that have been the cause of the most fuel. JB has been very vocal about how the current model is terrible, and Tom Brevoort has chosen to be marvel's attack dog and paint JB as sick rather than actually engage in making changes to put comic books back into kids' hands. Brevoort does not want to plug the sinking ship - he wants to get all the money he can from middle aged dudes before they drown. He won't address the real issues - he will try to bring JB down for being a critic.
Brevoort is leading the same kind of attack on JB that 70's and 80s Marvel artists waged against Jack Kirby. They made fun of his art and mocked Kirby, and Marvel helped lead the charge because Kirby was making too much noise about artist's rights. Now JB brings up a similarly uncomfortable truth about Marvel editorial and the DSM, and he is being hung for it. His work is so influential and still engaging, but Marvel wants to erase him just like they are erasing the Fantastic Four from existence. How can readers support such juvenile actions in business?
While I appreciate JB's dedication to being open and honest and I dig his sharp elbows, I see why it runs counter to his 80s image. JB was so influentuial to those of us that grew up on his work that there is a tendancy to paint him as Uncle John, and a desire for him to smile and lie to us that it will be alright. I like that JB doesn't bullshit us, and I don't get why his independence is not admired more. People still come at him as Company Man and expect him to be on message like a talentless editor.
Some people will say JB brought this on himself by engaging in online debates. But would you prefer he is not truthful? Would you prefer he tow the company line like Breevort? Breevort is an an editor who wants to bury a real artist. Why do people side with someone so nakedly part of a failed establishment? As more real artists come forward about the failed DSM model, will they acknowledge JB was saying this for the last ten plus years?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132129
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Posted: 28 September 2014 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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•• Next person who says my old stuff was better. . . . . .BANG, ZOOM! To the Blue Area!!
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Jeffrey Rice Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1161
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Posted: 28 September 2014 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 4
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I loved Julie's hair!
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Eric White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1066
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Posted: 28 September 2014 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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Not just Brevoort, Erik Larsen's second career as art critic seems to only be focused on JB.
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3813
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 1:37am | IP Logged | 6
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Not having read the 3 examples you mention, I seem to have missed the whole "cradle snatcher" thing altogether. And that after having read your material for 30 years! Talk about a non-issue.
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 3:57am | IP Logged | 7
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Right around 30 is about what I think. It brings up that saying the 60s counter-culture used to bandy about. It also becomes the point where you're going to eventually be old enough to be like the father or uncle of the girl you're dating.
Me? I categorize things. Up to 30, the 18-year olds are the low limit. Above it, the scale slides according to the age. At age 46, I'd be more comfortable with a 30-something than a woman still in her mid-20s. The eye of the beholder, dude.
(That, and I'm so picky about what I'd want and quite unsure that I'd be ready to handle intimate relationships with women now that I'd want to tread carefully in those waters. There'd have to be a lot of common interests just to work out a platonic friendship, which is about all I'd want at this stage of my life anyway.)
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 5:25am | IP Logged | 8
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Mr. Byrne - your old stuff WAS better. Your current stuff is better. And I have absolutely no doubt, your future stuff will be better. Your styles mature and modify, and they're still better.
Wait, what were we comparing them to again...?
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Marc Cheek Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2014 Location: United States Posts: 1785
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 6:12am | IP Logged | 9
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When I first read them, I thought nothing of Mac and Heather's relationship, nor Sue's crush on Reed. I have to admit, I was a bit surprised by Superman kissing 14 year-old Lana in Generations III. I wasn't offended or thought it perverse though. And I never would have thought what you wrote into a story reflected back on you or made you a pedophile or anything of the sort.
John Byrne haters gotta hate, and I guess they'll use any ammo they can manufacture...
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Roy Johnson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2013 Location: Canada Posts: 1323
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 6:59am | IP Logged | 10
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It's not just nonsense about you, check out the Joss Whedon entry:
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James Long Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 60
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 11
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Gotta agree with Eric. ^^^.(I don't need to quote it. IT's only the third comment above this and he has his name on it.)
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Paul Simpson Simpson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 939
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Posted: 29 September 2014 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 12
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Byrne.........pervert Alan Moore..............genius WTF ? Maybe Josh Whedon has a foot thing.It's still better than Alice fucking Wendy.
Edited by Paul Simpson Simpson on 29 September 2014 at 9:52am
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