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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132136
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 1  

Apparently, this is an "obsession" of mine. At least, according to some posts I've been reading elsewhere. False, of course, but interesting as an illustration of the lengths to which some will go to create a "Bad Byrne" story.

Now, it is TRUE I have done some younger women/older men romances in the four decades I have been working in comics. Mac and Heather, for instance, tho she was far from being a "little girl". (This one I have seen listed as done "since he got old". Hm. When I created Mac and Heather I was in my middle twenties. When does "old" start??)

Some have managed to get themselves all bent out of shape over the flashback scene I did in FF, showing an eight year old Sue "crushing on" an eighteen year old Reed, but this one starts with Stan. He established that Sue was at least ten years younger than Reed, and winding the clock back…   (Crushes like this never happen in the real world, of course!)

Of course, the big one for which I have been raked over the coals was Superman kissing (at her request) the fourteen year old Lana Lang in GENERATIONS III. The editor even told me I would not have been allowed to do it in a "real" Superman title. Not sure how GENERATIONS being an Imaginary Story in any way affects content. If something is wrong, it's wrong. But IS it wrong? According to many a male fan, yes. Perverted, in fact. Turned Superman into a pedophile. Yet, from female readers I received comments that the scene was "like something out of a fairy tale" and "beautiful."

Eye of the beholder?

Which kicks in on another point. Many a time, I have drawn bad guys doing that throttle-and-lift move that Darth Vader uses on the hapless spaceship captain in the original STAR WARS. Apparently, it's fine with fans that I do so -- unless the person being throttled is female. Then, it becomes "sexual strangulation" -- a term apparently being used by people who have little or no idea what it means.

More examples of how I wish the Bashers would be somehow limited to the TRUTH when they attack. The silence would be deafening.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132136
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 2  

Musing on this a bit further, I recall a "challenge" I issued, once upon a time, to Byrne Bashers everywhere: tell/repeat no story about me (not even the good ones -- tho they don't repeat those anyway) unless you personally know it to be true.

And "My best friend told me, and I trust him!" doesn't count as first hand!

More of that deafening silence!

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Stephen Churay
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Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 3  

Old for me happened at 30. At the time I was working as a bartender
and it was flattering when girls eight or nine years younger than me
were attracted. They seemed to be attracted to me all the way to age
29 and 364 days. The day I reached 30, girls who actually expressed
there affection to me a week before started treating me like I was a
leper.

I personally never read any of your work including the ones you've
mentioned, and thought anything was wrong or perverted. The FF was
a flashback and the knowledge I had as a reader about Lana and
Clark's history made it ok for me. Even the characters at that point in
the story both had history with each other at different points in there
lives. Nothing really felt wrong.

Sadly your issue with this actually goes further with people
COMPLETELY making this stuff up in there own head. It seems
"some*" look at Aurora as an example when comparing your art on
ALPHA FLIGHT 25-30 years ago with a commission you did from the
last few years. It appears they believe you drew Aurora in Alpha Flight
as a twenty-something buxom vixen. But, when you did this character
commission you drew her looking younger and with a smaller chest,
"because you know, Byrne likes 'em young."

To which I responded...
What!?!?

*some being a couple of grown men at my LCS who don't get out
much.
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Darren Taylor
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Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5994
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 4  

From the first moment of reading Alpha Flight, Mac and Heather's relationship was the glue that seem to run through the pages. I'm pretty sure that Puck or someone even mentions that they were like the Mum and Dad of the group.

The bashers love to gripe and gripe and then gripe some more.

Over the years that I've been admiring your work I've seen popular opinion pendule from your being some kind of a God to your being the Devil. Recently though, it feels like the arm swings at least some of the way back. There are more and more people who are being more vocal in your support. Something that has been sadly lacking for quite a while.

Obviously with more support, those with an axe to grind have to bump-their-gums that much louder or concede, "Yes that is good but did you know---".

I've never changed my status on this subject and most everyone who knows me, in comics or not, know I'm a huge John Byrne fan.

-D


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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132136
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 5  

Over the years that I've been admiring your work I've seen popular opinion pendule from your being some kind of a God to your being the Devil. Recently though, it feels like the arm swings at least some of the way back. There are more and more people who are being more vocal in your support.

••

I think the STAR TREK books may have had something to do with this. TREK fans mostly are not comic fans, so the work (including the photocomics) has been mostly reviewed as "is it good TREK?" without awareness of my role as the Great Satan.

When people see that it is possible to say something positive about my work without being crucified, it encourages them to try the same.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132136
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 6  

"…Byrne likes 'em young…"

••

Well, I do! You know, 50 or so. . . .

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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5438
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 7  

This whole "Byrne bashing" thing has been very puzzling to me. When I left the world of comic books about 1981 John Byrne was simply my favorite artist. The impression JB made on me never waned, so some 30 years later (after finally getting a home computer) searching for a JB gallery I found this forum.   I never belonged to a forum (or lurked on one) until here a few months ago. This is where I have heard the "bad Byrne" stories. I was stunned, what exactly happened? Is this just the case of someone who has an opinion and is not afraid to speak it is an easy target (which is what I believe) ?
In any case I'm glad I'm back JB's art is even better now (imho) and I discovered his great story telling.
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Andy Meyers
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Joined: 05 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 567
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 8  

Attacking someone and implying they like young girls is the cheapest, gutless kind of attack. Some young people joke about it and think it's funny because they don't know anybody that has been involved in something so absolutely horrible (or maybe it's that character from Family Guy). 

I walked into the mall last year, walked past two teenagers (I ignored them) and I heard one of them call me a pedophile. As they laughed about it I just seethed and kept walking because confronting them would only serve make me look bad. By saying that about me they gained power in the situation where they probably feel they have none. Those posters who are making those comments fall into the same category. I just wish there was a way to make them shut up because they are lousy human beings. 
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James Long
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Joined: 23 September 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 60
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 9  

Anything that gets rolling these days can snowball onto a giant monsterball of flakiness.

Get in, if not first, then fast

I had a two co-workers tell me that my haircut made me look like a paedophile. Lucky for me the girl was mooning over another co-worker who was a year younger than her.  So I now call her a cougar. The male was easier I just said he 'look(ed) like a fat paedophile.'

Gave me some space to luxuriate in my haircut.



Edited by James Long on 28 September 2014 at 7:20pm
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132136
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 10  

Anything that gets rolling these days can snowball onto a giant monsterball of flakiness.

••

As Mark Twain said, a lie can get halfway round the world while the truth is getting its shoes on. And in his day, they didn't even have the internet.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132136
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 11  

I walked into the mall last year, walked past two teenagers (I ignored them) and I heard one of them call me a pedophile.

••

I have reached a point in my journey down life's highway such that on the street, or in the grocery store, or just about any public place, pretty young women and little old ladies smile at me. I take this to mean I am registering as totally harmless.

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Marin Balabanov
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Joined: 01 June 2005
Location: Austria
Posts: 195
Posted: 28 September 2014 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 12  

Please let me share something strange: I have never heard a bad Byrne story in my life, except for reading about them here in the forum. If you let JB's work stand on its own then you see a wide range of different stories with different characters, settings and situations.

Some I like, others I like a lot. But all of them touch me in some manner.

This is my good Byrne Story!

Thank you.
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