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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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A teenage superhero -- who's not a
sidekick and who makes his share of
mistakes as kids do -- is unique.
••
It ceases to be unique when there are many
teen-age heroes who are not side-kicks.
Spider-man may have been the first but he
would hardly be unique any more if he was
a still a teen-ager.
Edited by Kip Lewis on 31 October 2014 at 3:53pm
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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A teenage superhero would be quite unique these days if they stayed a teenager instead of aging.
For some reason, every other writer wants to be the one who writes about a character growing up, so we get adult Kitty Pryde, adult Richard Ryder, adult Peter Parker, a group of adult "New" Mutants, adult X-Men, adult Johnny Storm, adult Dick Grayson, adult Jason Todd, hell - adult Teen Titans in general...
It's crazy!
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4072
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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I remember when Spider-Man unmasked during the Civil War story, he claimed he got his powers 15 years ago, when he was 15. That would make him 30 (obviously). Now he's lost two years?
The events in a character's life pile up over time, but the years don't have to. It's one of the cool things about comic book time.
If you try to fit everything Captain America's been through into a ten-years-since-Avengers #4-timeline, then he was thawed out post-9-11, quit being Captain America when someone in George W. Bush's White House was involved in the Secret Empire scandal, went back to being Captain America, resigned again and was replaced by the Super-Patriot before the end of the Bush Administration, lost his Super-Soldier Serum and seemingly died before coming back and fighting the Red Skull, went into the Heroes Reborn universe before the end of the Bush Administration, got assassinated at some point during Obama's first term, came back from the dead during Obama's second term, and has been de-powered and replaced by the Falcon, also during Obama's second term.
Batman, starring in multiple titles, gets even more difficult to "realistically" fit into a five-to-ten-year timeline, since there have been four Robins, two Batgirls, and about 20 really horrible disasters hitting Gotham City over that span of time.
Given that Cap's met multiple Presidents and celebrities in the comics over the years, I prefer to think he got thawed out in 1964, but nobody in the Marvel Universe gets any older unless they need to for story purposes.
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Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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Peter Parker isn't a loser. He's had a tough life, but
he always overcomes the difficult moments in the end.
I don't think Peter Parker should be aged, he should
be left just as Steve Ditko left him: just graduated
High School, with the only wiggle-room being that he
may have started his first year of college.
That civil War issue when he unmasked himself, he said
he'd been Spider-Man since he was 15 years old. There
was no mention of how long ago that was. The comic did
not state he was Spider-Man for 15 years.
When people want to age Spider-Man, I wonder if that's
an indicator that there is niche to fill?
Is there an adult superhero, somewhere around the age
of 30, who is not a millionaire, or a scientific
genius? A character who has an active, regular,
civilian life? (i.E. no Steve Rogers types that
really are only their super-hero selves)
One that's not an obscure, D-list Superhero, and has
an ongoing monthly comic from either Marvel or DC?
Off the top of my head, I don't think there is. The
heroes are all super-rich, or have fantastical super-
science jobs, or they really don't have a civilian
life.
Perhaps taking the Spider-Man template, a normal guy,
with a regular job and regular real-life problems, who
happens to be a superhero, but is a grown up and not a
teenager or 20 year old, would scratch that "let's age
Peter Parker" itch.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4072
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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"Wealth and fame, he's ignored--action is his reward!"
The song gets it right. Peter could be a billionaire if he applied himself and slacked off on his Spider-Man duties, but he's driven to do the right thing. If that means he's got to take the subway instead of a cab or that he's got to choose between a new computer and paying Aunt May's medical bills, he'll do what he has to do.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132338
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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It ceases to be unique when there are many teen-age heroes who are not side-kicks. Spider-man may have been the first but he would hardly be unique any more if he was a still a teen-ager. •• Care to list some of those teen superheroes who are not sidekicks? I suppose the X-Men might have counted, time upon a once, tho being members of a group nudged them very close to "sidekick" status. The Human Torch was certainly treated as a sidekick to the grownup in the early days. Who else is there?
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Jason Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 August 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1167
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 7
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I used to like that Peter Parker had aged out of school and then university, and reckoned that a year in his comic book equated with about 2 years in real time.•• One of the worst things to happen to superhero comics was when the fans started doing that math -- started demanding that time be seen to elapse for the characters even if it was only a tiny increment! I've actually seen/heard fans working it out that it would be okay if ten years for us represent only one year for the characters. Completely missing that all important fictional-characters-do-not-age part of the "equation."
------------------------------------------------------------ -----
Well, when I say I used to like that notion back then, I should have probably mentioned that I was 14 at the time LOL! I guess I could have made that more clear.
In fact I very quickly grew disenchanted with the idea, maybe a year after Peter was married, and the novelty started to wear off, as I suddenly realised that no, I didn't really want the character growing older, and getting away from what drew me to his stories to begin with. And I kind of thought, well kids are going to be missing out on the self same character, because he isn't the same one anymore. So I did come around to the idea that I'd rather they didn't age...ironically once I started growing up a bit.
I suppose, to a certain extent, it really is like that oft quoted Stan comment about fans not really wanting change, just the illusion of change..
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132338
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 8
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Stan also wisely said "Never give the fans what they THINK they want!"
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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t ceases to be unique when there are many
teen-age heroes who are not side-kicks.
Spider-man may have been the first but he
would hardly be unique any more if he was
a still a teen-ager.
••
Care to list some of those teen
superheroes who are not sidekicks? I
suppose the X-Men might have counted, time
upon a once, tho being members of a group
nudged them very close to "sidekick"
status. The Human Torch was certainly
treated as a sidekick to the grownup in
the early days.
Who else is there?
.......
Currently being published as solo titles:
Nova
Ms. Marvel
Superboy
Cyclops (the one from the past now has a
solo title though he is running around
with his father Corsair.)
Loki (believe it or not he is now a
teenage hero of sorts.)
And I suppose I could add Ultimate Spider-
Man.
If we add teams,
Teen Titans include members who were never
side kicks.
Ultimates, a mixture, one sidekick, some
adults, some 18/19 year olds and Ultimate
Spider-Man.
The Original X-men. (Pulled into their
future/out present.)
That is what is currently being published.
Then if you look back through the years,
we have everything from the Legion of
Super Heroes to the original Nova to
Firestorm to Gravity.
Plus if we add into this mix the super
powered teens of Manga, like Naruto, I
would say a teenage hero who isn't a
sidekick is more the norm now than a teen
age sidekick is today.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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Characters who are kid versions of the adults are sidekicks in my book, even if they don't actually hang around with the original all the time. Kid Flash was as much a sidekick, to me, as a kid reading the comics, as was Robin and Aqualad.And, as I said, once they are in groups, they pretty much become each other's sidekicks.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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orginal Nova, (current) Ms. Marvel, Loki,
Firestorm, Gravity, Sentinel, Cyclops;
none of them are based on characters that
existed before them. And these are just
the ones I remember of the top of my head.
Plus side-kicks are by definition
subordinate partners or associates. If
they aren't a partner or an associate,
they aren't a sidekick, even if they are
patterned of of them. (Also in the New DC
universe the old ties have been severed.)
Teammates are also not sidekicks because
sidekick is always a subordinate.
Edited by Kip Lewis on 31 October 2014 at 7:14pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 31 October 2014 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 12
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Nova, (current) Ms. Marvel, Loki, Firestorm, Gravity, Sentinel, Cyclops; none of them are based on characters that existed before them. •• Captain Obtuse rides again. Of the seven names you list, five belong to pre-existing characters. The new ones may be "different," but the chances are zero to none that they would exist if the others had not been there first. ++++++ Teammates are also not sidekicks because sidekick is always a subordinate. •• Yup, sidekicks tend to be subordinate -- as most members of teams are, as they cycle thru whose best in a given situation situation. The rest of the team often became "sidekicks" to Mr. Fantastic, or Cyclops.
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Topic Closed)
