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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8841
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 1
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Don Zomberg wrote:
I always knew
Always, Kevin? |
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Long story short: During a con I was at Len Wein mentioned that he and Romita created Wolverine at panel when JB and Claremont were doing the book. He hated the way he was written, but liked the new brown costume. (He was asked what he thought of the X-Men book.) Up until that moment, since I bought mostly DC, I really didn't know anything about most of Marvel's characters, especially the X-Men. After the panel I proceeded to hunt down back issues of the X-Men.
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Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2065
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 2
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My dictionary has a different definition of "always."
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Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2065
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 3
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That being said, I'm an imperfect being, and don't always [wink] use word correctly, myself.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30897
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 4
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Maybe we should ask when creation begins?
***********
With a blank sheet of paper.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 5
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Just as Spider-Man should *never* be a member of a superhero
team, Wolverine should never *not* be a member of the X-Men.
He works best in the context Geoffrey describes.
Once he had a successful solo series, Wolverine was on the
path to "leading man" status, which is a mistake, I think.
I also somewhat wish he'd remained a teenager. Once he's a
seasoned adult, one who might possibly be older than
Professor X himself, the "school for mutants" conceit makes
less sense, and I prefer the X-Men as "students" and the
"strangest teens of all." Remove that and their being
mutants is arguably not enough to distinguish them as a
superhero group -- especially once The Avengers included
mutants (Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, the Beast, Namor).
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Armindo Macieira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 6
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Wasn't Wolverine, at one point, supposed to be a mutated wolverine? Who changed that?
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 7
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Matt Hawes wrote:
| Wolverine was not a favorite of Dave Cockrum (I even recall him saying as much to me in person at a convention). |
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Cockrum created his own Wolverine character in 1972, for possible use in the Legion of Super-Heroes. The design was similar to what he eventually used for the Fang character in the Imperial Guard. Cockrum claims he showed his Wolverine character to Roy Thomas sometime prior to the creation of Marvel's Wolverine. Roy says he does not recall this. Dave says that for a time he disliked and resented Marvel's Wolverine for appropriating the name of his character.
If Roy did come up with the name via subconsciously recalling his conversation with Dave, then an argument can be made that Cockrum should be credited as co-creator. Particularly when Cockrum's design for the unmasked Wolverine has become the definitive look for the character.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 8
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So, with Thomas, Wein, Romita, Trimpe, Kane, Cockrum, Byrne, and Claremont all involved, whose descendants are the ones who deserve millions of dollars as their 'fair share' of Marvel's earnings off of the character?
This is a perfect example of why that particular 'creator's rights' perspective just doesn't work with serialized characters like this developed over decades. The character that's selling the comics, movies, tv shows, t-shirts, posters, etc. today is often far removed from the glimmer of an idea in the person who first put pen to paper, and that character, and its popularity, is the product of the work of many subsequent hands.
Here's why I don't get to run Disney: I'd cut everyone a check. Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe, Paty Cockrum, John Byrne, Chris Claremont, Gil Kane's family, etc. Invite them and a few guests to each X-Men red carpet movie premiere and give them VIP treatment for a weekend, keep them on the comp lists for merchandise and movie stuff, and just send a nice "Christmas bonus" their way whenever an X-Men movie makes a few hundred million at the box office. Just build a million bucks into each movie's budget and divvy it up accordingly.
If you or an immediate relative created a major character (one of the Avengers or someone who has a movie named after him), you should get a huge "Christmas bonus" check, and people who are promoting the movie and members of the media should make sure that "The Black Panther" is always closely followed by "created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby." Creator's rights made easy.
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Brian Peck
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 9
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Andrew,
Then you would be fired, since the X-Men movies are produced by FOX
and Disney has nothing to do with them at all. I doubt FOX would give
tickets to Disney to hand out to writers and artists. Now if you are talking
Avengers, Captain America, Thor and Iron Man movies I completely
agree get the original creators involved and pay them.
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Armindo Macieira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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I also somewhat wish he'd remained a teenager. Once he's a
seasoned adult, one who might possibly be older than
Professor X himself, the "school for mutants" conceit makes
less sense, and I prefer the X-Men as "students" and the
"strangest teens of all." Remove that and their being
mutants is arguably not enough to distinguish them as a
superhero group -- especially once The Avengers included
mutants (Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, the Beast, Namor).
------------------------------------------------------------
I think that what made X-Men different was the outcast status of the team. Back when I was reading them, the team's 'school' status was already gone.
In my eyes the FF were the family, the Avengers were the soccially accepted heroes and the X-Men were the pariahs. I connected to them for that reason.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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I believe Wolverine as one of the High Evolutionary's "New Men" was an idea floated across the bow at one point (and alluded to on-panel in the storyline wherein Jean becomes the Phoenix) but it was not part of his original conception. It looks to be an interesting footnote in the character's history, but one that was bypassed almost as soon as it was introduced.
Archie Goodwin's Spider-Woman, on the other hand, did that idea as her origin story (maybe why it wasn't pursued with Wolverine) and then Marv Wolfman felt he had to rewrite it in her first issue since an actual spider mutated into human form didn't seem very relatable or pleasant for that matter...
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16430
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| Posted: 30 October 2014 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 12
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WHOOPS! Reading back what I wrote, my mind must have got ahead of me when I typed:
"...Wolverine, probably more than any other comic character, was the result of all those guys mentioned above..."
I meant to write, "Wolverine, probably more than any other character, was the result of several people. All those creators listed had a hand in his creation... [and so on]"
I gotta proofread more often.
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Topic Closed)
