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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 1
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Got into an argument with one guy who
insisted that the accepted definition of
"A-List, B-List, etc" is only about a
characters readiness to be placed in
movies. (That wasn't my definition.)
By that definition, was Howard the Duck,
Marvel 's first A-List character?
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Philippe Negrin
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Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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My 6 year old non-reading daughter only but always recognizes Superman, Batman and Spider-Man.
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Andy Meyers
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Joined: 05 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 567
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 3
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All good post about A-listers. I've also noticed that readers have their own personal A-list heroes and that can change throughout the years. When I was younger enjoying Jim Aparo Aquaman, he was an A-lister to me. A-listers have a history in addition to their general name recognition so Captain America is on my A-list but probably not for the general public.
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2293
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think there's probably two separate A Lists and two B Lists--one set for comics fans and one set for the general (movie-going and TV-watching) public. However, we're at the point where the fans list and the public list start to come together and coincide, at least for the A List (I don't know if the general public HAS a B list)--because the comics publishers are making efforts to publish books starring the movie stars.
The A-Listers, for me, have pretty much been any character or team with at least one strong comics series AND at least the potential for a TV show or movie.
SUPERMAN
BATMAN
WONDER WOMAN
THE FLASH (two TV shows already!)
GREEN LANTERN
SPIDER-MAN
THE X-MEN
THE AVENGERS
THE HULK
THE FANTASTIC FOUR
CAPTAIN AMERICA
The B-Listers are obvious--the failures, the cancelled characters, the back-ups, etc. Like THE ATOM, HAWKMAN, AQUAMAN, SUB-MARINER, SILVER SURFER, POWER MAN, IRON FIST, SHE-HULK, MAN-THING, and a LOT of others.
There's a middle ground lately where a B-Lister might GRADUATE into the A List. There are some characters/concepts that have been/are being/will be elevated because they're been picked by Hollywood to be granted a TV show or a movie. That in and of itself does not necessarily grant a comic character entry into the A List BUT comic companies are more likely to give those blessed by Hollywood a leg up in the comics as well!
So, the historic B-Listers that might now be considered A-Listers, I would say, are:
GREEN ARROW
DAREDEVIL
DR. STRANGE (soon)
IRON MAN
THOR
GHOST RIDER (Besides the movies, I would love to see this as a TV show!)
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY (yep)
BLACK PANTHER (after the movie)
SUPERGIRL (TV show coming soon)
SWAMP THING
And then there are some that SHOULD graduate! Like--
SUPERBOY (once an A-Lister, then gone, then brought back as SMALLVILLE, and one day will probably be brought back again in a big way)
ROBIN (a household name that more will probably be done more with at some point)
TEEN TITANS
LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES
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Joe Zhang
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 21 November 2014 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 5
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Maybe one way to think about the A-list is whether the publisher would be in serious trouble if they suddenly lost that character. DC's existence as an independent entity within Warner Bros would probably end if they couldn't do anything new with either Superman or Batman. Same could not be said if they lost (just) Wonder Woman, Green Lantern or Flash.
Then again, I have a hard applying that "test" to the present-day Marvel. Several years ago I would have said Marvel would go bye-bye if they lost either Spider-Man or Wolverine. But now they have voluntarily taken Wolverine out of publication. Wow.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 21 November 2014 at 6:02pm
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Joe Zhang
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Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 22 November 2014 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 6
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Or maybe this would be a litmus test for what an A-lister is: a superhero that the general audience has an enduring appetite for. Superman and Batman have been that way for generations. Spider-Man is into his second decade as a "movie star". I wouldn't put any of the X-Men in the A-list, for I feel the "sum of the parts is greater than the whole". Iron Man, Captain America and Thor are A-listers for having several successful movie sequels (I think of Avengers as a sequel to their solo movies).
The B-list would be those with potential for becoming "A", but has no history yet of repeated success outside comics. On the DC bench, the B-listers are Green Arrow, "Shazam", Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman. In Marvel's stable, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel, Daredevil could also be "B". Again, I leave out Guardians of the Galaxy, because they are a team.
The C-list would be those with potential for becoming A or B, but are rather unlikely. Iron Fist's Netflix show would have to be astonishingly good for people to want a return appearance. The Punisher has been striking out decade after decade. Jonah Hex had his shot, but missed by a mile. The C-list would be pretty big; virtually any character which some comic writer breathed life, enough for fans to think fondly of, has potential.
The D-list (or Z-list) would be those with the potential of nil. There were a horde of superheroes that were created in the 90's, and barely remembered since. But then a year ago I would have put Rocket Racoon and Star-Lord here, so what do I know.
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Roy Johnson
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Joined: 19 May 2013
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 22 November 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| Jonah Hex had his shot, but missed by a mile. |
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The fault there wasn't "the character", it was the movie.
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Ed Love
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| Posted: 22 November 2014 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 8
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And, how do you rate a character like Blade who had several successful movies without tie-in movies to shore it up and a less than successful tv show but cannot be made into a success in the comics themselves?
The Shazam Captain Marvel had his own movie serial, a couple seasons as a kiddie live-action tv show, launched a spin-off, his own cartoon and has been the subject of a direct-2-dvd animated movie. If anything, that shows that the character that has some inherent potential appeal that he keeps popping up. And, is probably one of the more copied/ripped off comic book characters out there
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Joe Zhang
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| Posted: 22 November 2014 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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For me, the Blade movies is more of a success of Wesley Snipes' persona than of the character itself. So perhaps Blade is a C-lister?
Yeah, I don't really know where Shazam would fall in my categories. A-list he isn't, but certainly there is some evidence for wide appeal in decades past. Maybe B+?
Edited by Joe Zhang on 22 November 2014 at 6:32pm
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 23 November 2014 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Captain Marvel certainly used to hold a great deal of cultural cache. Captain Marvel comics were among the best selling titles back when comics actually sold to the masses. The character received frequent mention in TV shows taking place in the Fifties. Gomer Pyle's catch phrase "Shazam!" was a reference to the comic. Unquestionably, the general public knew who the character was and understood the basic appeal of gaining powers from saying a magic word.
Unfortunately, we're not in the type of age, for better and for worse, that values that kind of simplicity. Recent comics featuring the character hinge on making up new rules and backstory to over-explain and eliminate the "silliness." The theme of innocence corrupted and lots of lovely ultra-violence fill the books.
Perhaps the upcoming film will lead modern audiences back to the character, but I don't see it happening. Whatever direction the film takes, "innocence" and "simplicity" are likely to be entirely absent. Without his original charm, any attempt at a "Shazam!" comic is going to be about somebody else in a vaguely similar costume, just as every attempt since the Seventies has been.
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 23 November 2014 at 3:28am | IP Logged | 11
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We are far too close to the medium to be able to answer this type of question. I am regularly amazed by what knowledge the public does not retain.
Examples - I have had conversations where people though Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker were one and the same. I have had conversation where people thought the Winter Soldier (or bad guy as he was referred to) was the Red Skull.
I would say people would remember (in no order): Superman Spider-Man SOME of the X-Men (Wolverine and a few others only. Most are just background) Hulk Thor Iron Man Batman Robin Captain America
I doubt they could name: Any of the Guardians of the Galaxy (possibly Groot but only a small proportion of people) War Machine / Iron patriot Hawkeye Green Lantern The character names of the Fantastic Four The Silver Surfer Blade (hmm, might be recognised by a few) Swamp Thing Daredevil Ghost rider
Names of characters just don't get remembered. The closest analogy for me would be Transformers - I have no idea who those guys are other than Optimus Prime, Megatron and Bumblebee. I have some names such as ratchet but I couldn't point them out. to the Transformers, I'm a civilian and I have no clue who's who.
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Mike Norris
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 23 November 2014 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 12
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Poor Hawkeye is often referred to as "bow and arrow guy".
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Topic Closed)
