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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 3:36am | IP Logged | 1
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If someone asked you which superheroes are A-list, some obvious characters come to mind. Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. But where would an important, well-known character like Cyclops land? He certainly isn't as popular with fans and the general audience as Batman. But Cyclops is way more important than, say, Blue Beetle. Wolverine is near and dear to many a fan's heart. But is he really A-list like Superman?
If superheroes could be tiered in terms of "importance" to comics, and to popular culture, how would you define those tiers?
Edited by Joe Zhang on 19 November 2014 at 3:39am
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 4:02am | IP Logged | 2
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Wolverine is near and dear to many a fan's heart. But is he really A-list like
Superman?
----
I'd consider the X-Men in aggregate as A-list, which makes Wolverine, being
arguably the most iconic member of the X-Men, A-list as well.
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Joe Hollon
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 4:14am | IP Logged | 3
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So what does A-List mean? Recognized by most civilians? That's a short list:
Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Hulk...Wolverine? Captain America?
I don't think I would include Wonder Woman on that list anymore. I think the name is burned into everyone's psyche but no one knows anything about her anymore. Any female hero would be identified as Wonder Woman to most people I think.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 4
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.I define A listers based on the following critieria. Importance in the comics grand scheme. Their popularity with the fans. Are they passing fads or have they maintained staying power. The design of the character and it's background.
So going by that I'd say Wolverine is an A lister. As is Cyclops who is by virtue of being one of the core and original X- Men.
Captain Marvel is an character that was easily an A lister but is no longer. I think he should still be but DC is keeping the man down.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 5
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It's hard to judge characters from team titles individually, like X-Men or Fantastic Four. Cyclops as a single character is definitely not A-list, but he is as part of the X-Men.
Wolverine is different - his popularity goes beyond the X-titles, as he can carry solo books and movies.
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Stephen Churay
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 6
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I think the list has evovled a bit since comic book films have become
popular. Here's mine
Marvel:
Spider-Man
Hulk
Captain America
Iron Man
Thor
Wolverine
DC:
Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
Flash
My criteria is what I know I can spout off the a civilian and they'll
recognize from years of being subjected to imagery.
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Ryan Maxwell
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 7
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I'm kind of tired of always trying to view comic characters through the eyes of people that only know what they've seen in a movie theater. Characters like the members of the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom deserve better than that. Being on an "A-List" shouldn't require the establishment of ticket sales in the last five years and some fickle memories. If so, it's Stephen's list and discussion over.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 8
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I derive a degree of amusement from this thread. The definition of "A-List" has certainly changed over the years! When I was working on X-MEN, and later FANTASTIC FOUR (and certainly ALPHA FLIGHT), civilians, upon learning what I did for a living, would ask me what I'd worked on. Naming the above titles would net blank stares. Once I did Spider-Man, the stares were less blank, but still not as comprehending as if I had said "Superman!" The weird thing about Marvel in those pre-movie days -- and we used to ponder this a lot -- was that a character like Spider-Man had become hugely recognizable, and yet non-fans knew almost nothing about him. Ask a "man on the street" about Superman, and he would most likely be able to spin off a good chunk of the litany: Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Krypton, Daily Planet. Same with Batman. But when it came to the Marvel characters, most civilians could not even name the secret identities. It helped that Superman and Batman had for years been prominent in Other Media, but even after the Marvel characters started turning up on TV, people remained curiously oblivious to all but the most superficial elements. And, lordy! did I get tired of saying I work on the Fantastic Four and having my listener respond with "Oh, yeah! I remember the cartoon when I was a kid. Rock Guy and Flame Guy.... who were the others?"
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Doug Centers
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| Posted: 19 November 2014 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 9
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Very short list if your talking civillians. When I was collecting comics if you had your own monthly book you were an "A Lister", if a character did not have a a book or was bi-monthly I considered them "B listers".
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Brian O'Neill
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 10
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In the Justice League letter columns of the '70s and '80s, for many readers, 'having your own book' also denoted A-list, or 'first string' status. Having(or formerly having) your own feature in an anthology title wasn't quite the same. So,the original members of the JLA (minus J'onn J'onnz) were the 'big guns', and everybody else(especially Hawkgirl, Red Tornado, Elongated Man, Zatanna, and after a number of years, Aquaman) was just 'there'...even Green Arrow, who was the first addition to the roster, back in # 4, and who had appeared in more solo stories without having his own comic than any other DC character. It was only with that post-CRISIS Mike Grell series that GA was treated more like a 'legend'.
Edited by Brian O'Neill on 20 November 2014 at 4:03am
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Robert Bradley
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 11
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Brian - I think that definition is probably as close to accepted as the norm as there is -
JLA
A-List - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern
B-List - Hawkman, Atom, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Zatana, etc.
Avengers
A-List - Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk
B-List - Hawkeye, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Wasp, Hank Pym, Black Widow, Hercules, Black Panther
Green Arrow, Black Widow, Hercules, Black Panther and Hawkeye have gotten a lot more burn recently, but I still think of them as "B-Listers" (blisters?)
Another interesting group when it comes to having "A-List" and "B-List" is the Defenders -
A-List - Hulk, Doctor Strange, Namor, Silver Surfer
B-List - Nighthawk, Valkyrie, Hellcat
Doctor Strange, Namor and the Silver Surfer all fall into that "middle ground" of having had their own titles (or anthologies), but not really maintaining them as successfully as the Hulk has.
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: 20 November 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 12
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Context is an issue with this question. Are we talking A-List insofar the general public is concerned or just the comics community? If we want to list only those characters who have found public recognition outside the comics and maintained it long enough to become part of the public consciousness, the list isn't going to be very long.
Other media is a huge element of that equation. Green Lantern recently had a big movie, but no one in their right mind went to go see it. :-) He gained no traction with the public and his cartoon series vanished nearly as quickly as it appeared. Most people on the street today still have no idea who Green Lantern is. The best you're likely to get is that he's a comic book character and has a magic ring.
Inside the comic community, Hal Jordan as Green Lantern is definite A-List material, the iconic space hero from which all other GL's descend. Comparatively, Alan Scott is an interesting historical footnote, but Hal's the guy who brought us the Corps, the ring being passed on, space adventures, all of the things that define the book today. Hal's the cornerstone. Without him, you can't build the rest of it.
Fans of John Stewart would no doubt argue that he was a better ring-slinger and achieved greater fame, starring for years as GL in the animated adventures. Both fair points, but he doesn't make the A-List because Hal, the guy who started it all, is already there. No Hal, no John, and an A-List isn't made to include follow-ups and also-rans.
Golden Age fans would then say that Alan should be there then and not Hal. No Alan, no Hal, but Alan didn't spin the mythology into a vast tapestry as Hal did. He didn't bring anything to the party except the basic concept. And more importantly for A-List contention, he didn't stick around. No one dresses like Alan. An awful lot of characters all dress like Hal. He's the head of the dynasty.
None of which matters even a little bit to the man on the street. Comic books are pretty much the guys from the movies and the few who have had long-running TV series that still linger in the collective memory. Robert Downey Jr. has put Iron Man onto the A-List and arguably Cap and Thor are on there now as well. The impact of the Marvel films is likely to be at least as long-lasting and well-remembered as Bill Bixby and Lynda Carter's contributions have been.
So, for the general public, characters who appear in an unsuccessful movie still don't make the cut. Supergirl and the Silver Surfer are not A-List, despite their comparatively wide exposure. Supergirl has her inherent also-ran status holding her back as well, but few today even remember she starred in her own movie. Fewer today want to look back on the Surfer's time on-screen.
In the comic-book world A-List however, both characters have become the heads of their respective dynasties, with new Supergirls and Heralds of Galactus debuting every other month. You can't leave them off without ignoring vast tracts of real estate that their characters mined and brought to the readers. Sub-Mariner- Comic Book A-Lister. Real World non-entity. The entire Fantastic Four have appeared in two major motion pictures and still the public has little idea of who they are and very little interest.
That may be the key element common to both lists. Interest. Does the character inspire readers or viewers to want more? Beyond their cult followings, I mean. I'm a huge fan of Deadman, but as impactful as the character has been for me over the years, he's not going to make anyone's A-List. He is interesting (Nu52 version not included) But he doesn't draw the interest of a Spider-Man or Wonder Woman, about whom you can literally write volumes of material and sell it to the masses.
Those characters are your A-Listers.
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Topic Closed)
