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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 8839
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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In reading the evidence that they've released to the media as what was presented at the grand jury, I'm still trying to figure out how Wilson is not going to trial. Then I remember that it's the prosecutor of the case that decides who testifies and what evidence is presented in order to get a "yea" or "nay" to go to trial. In nearly all cases, as Jeremy pointed out, if the prosecutor wants the accused to go to trial, they're going to trial.
So considering the very strong ties that the Missouri prosecutor has with the police and that he has, without fail, sided with the police in cases, I question just how badly he wanted to win or if he even "gave it his all".
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 2
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KEVIN: I question just how badly he wanted to win or if he even "gave it his all".
SER: If that's the case, then he violated the canon of ethics regarding "zealous" prosecution in an adversarial system. Wilson already had a defense attorney.
I also have not seen what the DA's "theory of the crime" was. Wilson's account deserved to be heard, but so did the "people's" (in this case, Mike Brown).
Wilson's account concerns me when he *literally* describes Brown as a "demon." And interprets his reactions after being shot as "aggressive" rather than shock or pain. A public citizen in that scenario could certainly become overwhelmed and react as Wilson did, but this is a trained police officer. Is it also reasonable to expect someone who's been shop to properly follow or even understand instructions?
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8009
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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"Don`t you Americans use the word `guy` as a generic term for a male? It`s crept into the media over here,with groups of both sexes being called `you guys`"
---
Tangent, but for a long time I figured that it was only a matter of time for Brits and other English-speakers to start picking up more of the American vernacular, what with kids growing up with the Internet in their lives with direct access to Americans on message boards and other websites (case in point!).
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 8839
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Stephen Robinson wrote:
If that's the case, then he violated the canon of ethics regarding "zealous" prosecution in an adversarial system. Wilson already had a defense attorney. |
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Having an attorney means diddly in a grand jury. There's no cross examination. It's all about the persecutor. The only defense allowed in a grand jury is the accused asking to tell his side of the story. Once on the stand, though, his attorney can do nothing. You cannot even invoke the 5th amendment.
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James Howell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012 Location: United States Posts: 363
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 5
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When was the last time a white cop got arrested and charged with murdering an unarmed black male civilian, in the US?
Or prosecuted for that matter?
Not really shocked at the outcome... There's another story about a Police Shooting in Brooklyn, where 2 cops routine patrol a stairway, with their guns drawn (I don't know why) and "accidentally" shoots a young, unarmed black man, killing him.
Police Commissioner Bratton calls it a "tragedy".
Now THAT is an overused word, in these kind of situations, because these "tragedies" seem to be happening a lot lately.
BTW, what happened with the case of Eric Garner, the guy who was choked out in broad daylight by SI cops and left on the street, without getting any aid, while ON CAMERA?
Given the record of Police prosecutions, I'm sure everything will turn out just fine.....
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Robert Cosgrove Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1710
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 6
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"there were 162,000 federal grand juries and only 11 did not return an indictment. Granted, the grand jury in Ferguson was a state grand jury but it's still telling."
Sorry, apples and oranges. Federal prosecutors rarely even present to a grand jury unless they are satisfied they can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt at trial. At the state level, it's much more common to to have a no bill returned, although obviously, since the police usually believe they have at least probable cause to arrest, in the vast majority of cases indictments are still returned. But this was not a case based on an arrest, it was essentially an investigative grand jury.
" If that's the case, then he violated the canon of ethics regarding "zealous" prosecution in an adversarial system. Wilson already had a defense attorney."
That well states the obligation of a defense attorney, but not the ethical obligation of a prosecutor. The obligation of a prosecutor is to see that justice is done.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3487
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 7
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And once again, the people who are really in power keep it that way by turning poor whites and poor blacks against each other.
See also: the immigration debate, used to turn both against poor Hispanics.
Anybody who buys into either side is getting played for a sucker.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132136
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 8
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And once again, the people who are really in power keep it that way by turning poor whites and poor blacks against each other.••• Why do conspiracy buffs give so much credit for managerial skills to the minibrains in government?
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Jeremy Simington Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 687
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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Robert Cosgrove, you don't have to apologize. I welcome facts that help me understand the situation, especially if I might be thinking about something the wrong way. Same goes for everyone posting here with thoughts and info. The mistake I have made too often is that I make up my mind and don't consider evidence and ideas that offer a different perspective. I'm working on it!
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Tshombe K. Hamilton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 July 2008 Location: United States Posts: 427
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 10
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There is a long standing history of distrust between blacks and police officers. This stuff is not made up its real. You have cops who patrol these neighborhoods who think of minorities nothing more than animals.
When you have an community that is 67% black and of the 50 Ferguson cops, 3 are black, that is a recipe for an adversarial nature. Especially if you have white police officers who might have predjudiced views against minorities.
On top of that according to the a 2013 Missouri Atty General report, Black drivers are stopped at a rate rate of 7 times for every 1time for a white driver
So things do need to change. I really hope that the law passes that will allow for body cameras.
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Brian O'Neill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013 Location: United States Posts: 1964
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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And once again, the people who are really in power keep it that way by turning poor whites and poor blacks against each other.••• Why do conspiracy buffs give so much credit for managerial skills to the minibrains in government? The conspiracy theorists themselves have an even greater degree of 'minibraininess', which they are projecting onto the somewhat less-minibrains in charge of things.
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Charles Valderrama Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4716
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Posted: 25 November 2014 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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Typically, there's plenty to be suspicious about - but I'm not sure this is one of those instances... more of a case of things "boiling over" from the countless times the justice system has failed the victims. Sadly, when elections come around, as they have recently, it seems none of those issues are brought up as platforms to better win the trust of voters. Quite surprising considering the passion most have towards these tragedies.
Why NOT call upon these politicians to bring solutions to the relations law enforcement has with the public, especially in the poorer neighborhoods??
-C!
Edited by Charles Valderrama on 25 November 2014 at 10:25pm
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