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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
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| Posted: 25 November 2014 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 1
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This may seem a strange comparison, but I was thinking about traffic cameras. Here in Ohio there have been communities banning the use of cameras and automatic ticketing by police. They say it's too intrusive, or it's just about making money. I think it's a good idea to get people to slow down and obey traffic laws. After all, over 30,000 Americans are killed every year in car crashes. If you don't want a ticket, don't break the law.
However, people are quick to jump on people who get shot by the police as being lawbreakers. As if (in this case) shoplifting warrants the death penalty.
I don't know if I wrote that in a way that makes sense. It just seems that white people hate the police when they get a ticket, but support the police when a black man gets killed. Though both examples above involve breaking the law.
I hope that makes some kind of sense.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 3:47am | IP Logged | 2
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My problem is the lies and coverups by the police. Take the case of the young thief in Quebec who surrendered to police by lying face down in the snow, hands outstretched, all the while yelling "I surrender". Four police officers attacked and beat him, then claimed he was resisting arrest. If it wasn't for a security camera, nothing would have happened to them. Same as with the tasering in Vancouver. The police colluded to get a common story and changed many parts of the story to make them look better. Again, without a camera recording the scene, nothing would have happened to the officers. How can you believe any police officer when so many seem to turn a blind eye to this behaviour? How many reports have been fabricated in the past?
How about the officer in Florida who arrested another police offer for excessing speeding and was then stalked and threatened by other police around the US? It just seems to go on and on.
(I can't put any links to these stories in this post. Life in a real police state. They are all easy to find though. )
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 4:19am | IP Logged | 3
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The root problem is the absence of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. (not to mention the scarcity of every other kind of job). Working class communities, whether White, Black, Hispanic, etc. can not go on indefinitely like this. Communities, lives break down, and keep on breaking. Some people somehow endure, survive. Other people turn lawless, feral. It's left to the cops to keep the lid on the lawlessness. Sometimes their only tool is brute violence. I interpret the Ferguson grand jury's decision as an green light for such brute, governmental violence. It's a grave mistake. This solution is no kind of solution at all.
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 4
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The problem that I'm having with this is that we're being told to make targets of the police officers who are not engaging in any of the acts of brutality and state hooliganism that are being outlined here. We risk alienating the good people who're actually following their duty to protect and serve, and giving in to what appears to be a growing wave of anarchy which will destroy everything. The real targets ought to be those politicians and government officials whose policies are creating much of the poverty which is becoming a seedbed for the anarchy and organized crime.
It comes down in large part to the community as a whole. Do you sit back and let the world sink into chaos, even as it destroys the lives of your own children? Or do you get out and help others deal with the problems? I get the feeling that the former stance has been taken in places like Ferguson, Missouri and elsewhere.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 5
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According to available statistics, there are 1.1 million serving police officers in the United States. That's roughly the population of Dallas, TX.Measured against that number, how many incidents such as the one in Ferguson are there, annually? Cold statistics don't help people who are the victims of real police brutality, but losing all perspective doesn't help anybody!
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 6
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Why do conspiracy buffs give so much credit for managerial skills to the minibrains in government?
-------------------------------------
Well, apparently those minibrains were smart enough to convince you that the Southern Strategy is a 'conspiracy theory'. And btw, the people behind it have said that the immigration debate is being used the same way.
I was alleging no conspiracy. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are using this situation to get in front of a camera and try to stay relevant. The news media has ginned this whole thing up for ratings. Politicians are jumping up and making statements to try to secure the 'black vote' or the 'working class' vote respectively.
The reality is though that in terms of their daily life, their hopes and dreams, and their values, the shooter and the man who was shot, and their families, have far more in common with each other than they do with Sharpton, the media, a Senator, etc.
The relatively few 'Haves' in a culture always play the greater body of the 'Have-Nots' in order to keep their power and wealth. In Saudi Arabia, the royal family pits the people they keep in crushing poverty against the Americans and the Jews. In the United States, they pit poor whites against poor blacks, and both against poor Latinos in order to keep the working class from ever working together and demanding change.
Edited by Steve De Young on 26 November 2014 at 8:33am
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8841
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 7
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I do not believe for one moment that there is any conspiracy going on here. The only thing that I think happened is that the prosecutor, Robert McCulloch, was extremely biased in this case and did all he could to make sure Wilson did not go to trial.
Just as an FYI: McCulloch's father, mother, brother, uncle and cousin all worked for the St. Louis Police Department, and his father was killed while responding to a call involving a black suspect in 1964. Missouri's Governor NEVER should have allowed him near this case. Period.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 8
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Why do conspiracy buffs give so much credit for managerial skills to the minibrains in government?------------------------------------- Well, apparently those minibrains were smart enough to convince you that the Southern Strategy is a 'conspiracy theory'. •• When did I say this?
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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There are a lot of people flinging the word "conspiracy" around. No one party seems to have a monopoly on the word. If it gets done in spite of one's wishes that it be otherwise, it must be a conspiracy!
One of the main reasons that I am less eager to listen to national media -- including some of those big names in AM talk radio -- is the obsession with the idea that it was all part of a diabolical plan somehow. I will agree that there is collusion between groups or individuals with a common agenda, but I do not see a (insert favorite bogeyman) conspiracy under every pillow at night. Nor do I think that these people can keep it up for very long. Eventually, they'll hit that wall, and it'll fall down on them. There's no escaping the fact.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15794
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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If the evidence was sufficiently strong to have a chance at successfully prosecuting criminal charges, is it not worth a civil case being brought, given that the burden of proof there would be preponderance of the evidence, rather than beyond reasonable doubt as it would in a criminal trial?
Edited by Peter Martin on 26 November 2014 at 5:40pm
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Tshombe K. Hamilton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 July 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 11
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Kevin I am in 1000% agreement with you. Robert McCulloch should have never been allowed near this case. In fact during his report he was going out of his way to paint the witnesses as unreliable. He even painted Mike Brown, the victim, as a bad guy.
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James Howell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 26 November 2014 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 12
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"Just as an FYI: McCulloch's father, mother, brother, uncle and cousin all worked for the St. Louis Police Department, and his father was killed while responding to a call involving a black suspect in 1964. Missouri's Governor NEVER should have allowed him near this case. Period."
You think that the Governor DIDN"T KNOW McCulloch's background, before the case? Of course he did.
Why do you think it took so long for a Grand Jury to happen?
They tried to stall, hoping people would stop being angry, and move on to something else.
It didn't work.
BTW, people in power have been conspiring to manipulate the masses. for their own ends, since the beginning of time.
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