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Stephen Churay
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Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 28 February 2015 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 1
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Calling the current era the diamond era is very gracious.
======
Harri, there's nothing gracious about it, if you realize my statement
was made mostly in jest.
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Johan Vikberg
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Joined: 08 August 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 188
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| Posted: 06 March 2015 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 2
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Bulfinch's Mythology lists ages of Gold, Silver, Brass, and Iron, but I've often wondered how much of it is actually from the Greek myths and how much his fannish interpretation.
It’s from ancient Greece. Hesiod has five ages: of Gold, Silver, Bronze (Brass?), Heroes and Iron. I can understand the temptation to remove the age of Heroes which isn’t named after a metal.
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Jack Bohn
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Joined: 13 July 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 747
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| Posted: 06 March 2015 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Well, have to find some other bit of mythology for a Greek god in modern day to dismiss with, "That's Bullfinch!"
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Jack Bohn
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| Posted: 15 March 2015 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Percolating: as the events are chronological, rather than rearrange them into importance, group them as they relate to each other.
There's the relaxing of the Comics Code Authority:
2.Green Lantern/Green Arrow #79 (Apr 1970)
6.Spider-Man drug issues-Amazing Spider-Man #96-98(May-July 1971)
7.Black and White magazines
[Were these magazines, like MAD, to avoid the CCA?]
8.Relaxing of the CCA
9.Swamp Thing-House of Secrets #92 (Jun-Jul 1971)
11.Jonah Hex-All-Star Western #10 (Feb-Mar 1972)
[Is he horrid enough to have needed the relaxation?]
12.Tomb of Dracula (Apr 1972)
18.The Punisher-Amazing Spider-Man #129 (Feb 1974)
[Not the hero of his own book, yet, but with his lethal response to crime.]
26.American Splendor #1 (1976)
28.2000A.D. (Feb 1977)
29.Heavy Metal #1 (Apr 1977)
Although the last three didn't require the CCA seal of approval.
Similarly would be the trend to "relevance," beginning with 6 & 7:
13.Luke Cage-Hero for Hire #1 (July 1972)
17.Master of Kung Fu-Special Marvel Edition #15 (Dec 1973)
18.The Punisher-Amazing Spider-Man #129 (Feb 1974)
24.Howard the Duck #1 (Jan 1976)
26.American Splendor #1 (1976)
27.Liberated Marvel Heroines-Ms. Marvel #1 (Jan 1977)
Then there's the format experiments:
4.KIRBY IS COMING!
7.Black and White magazines
10.100-PageSuper Spectaculars (1971)
14.Tabloid Comics (Dec 1972)
28.2000A.D. (Feb 1977)
29.Heavy Metal #1 (Apr 1977)
35.Elfquest-Fantasy Quarterly #1 (Spring 1978)
36.Birth of the Graphic Novel-McGregor/Gulacy’s Sabre (Aug 1978)
40.The first mini-series- World of Krypton #1 (July 1979)
I include Kirby, limited series, collected in graphic albums, and such, but I don't know what effect he had on DC storytelling.
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Ed Love
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Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 5
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I am always a bit annoyed by listing the O'Neil & Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow as making superheroes relevant. Relevance fueled the early stories of superheroes - they grew out of the era of prohibition, WWII in Europe, the Great Depression. There were fantastical aspects, sure. But, Superman in those days also took time to beat up an abuser, intervene in a labor dispute, gambling and making crooked sports events. DC would eventually decide to avoid mention of the War (which was where they began to get the slide away from relevance), but it was there in the other comics of the times as heroes would deal with rationing, black marketeers and War inspired villains of every stripe.
As one War died down and the Korean War started up, superheroes began to reflect the change in Asian antagonists and change in landscape that Atomic energy and the Bomb affected. Companies created superheroes out of veterans that had returned from the War and not all of them whole (none of which were particularly successful, but then neither was Adams & O'Neil on GL/GA). Timely would relaunch their heroes fighting Communist menaces, the Red Skull was now a Communist instead of a Nazi.
The Comics Code changed many things and DC outlasted most of the companies. The company that mostly avoided mentioning the War in their superhero comics slowly started re-creating their heroes with pretty much the same watered down palette. Maybe they had looked at some of the earlier attempts to introducing new superheroes that all reflected the specter of the Atomic bomb and Russia and China, and none of which lasted. Or maybe it was the influence of the 1940s style of science fiction that the creators and editors were part of. While the designs were sleeker, the storytelling better, the types of stories being told were still old-fashioned - everyone was strictly middle class, white and more or less happy. Bad guys created fantastic sci-fi weapons and threats to simply rob banks.
Still, when Marvel introduced superheroes, it reflected the scares of untested science and radiation, the Cold War, the politics and furor of the Space Race. The Hulk gave us a military that were the antagonists. While radiation granted "powers" they were a burden as much a boon. They were relevant in ways that DC wasn't. Bad guys were despots of foreign nations, spies out to steal secrets for the Commies, and threats from science gone wrong. Even the alien Skrulls could be seen as tapping into that era of the Red menace, under that kind face is your neighbor really a red-blooded American? But, as the comics took off and they became settled into their status quo, they too eventually lost much of their relevance. Peter Parker got handsome and socially acceptable, the Thing more melancholy than someone who might betray the team or accidentally kill someone in a rage.
What O'Neil and Adams did was more rediscovery. They added a new veneer of realism to the characters and styles which DC had stripped away from their superheroes a long time before. The power of the Comic Code was chipped away and Marvel would follow suit with characters and stories that also reflected the turbulent times.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 6
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It's important to remember that GREEN LANTERN was a book on the verge of cancellation, and the switch to "relevance" (in that "torn from the headlines" manner) was a kind of "Well, it can't hurt!" response to those dwindling sales. A response that didn't work! GL/GA was still cancelled.Unfortunately, the issues had a profound effect upon those reading them in the industry, and suddenly "relevance" was the rage. Whether appropriate to the particular characters or not, sermons became the dish of the day -- and readers turned away in droves. Which compelled the publishers to do MORE of the same, pandering to the remaining audience. Thus we saw "relevance" become "grim and gritty" become, as Dave Gibbons noted a while back, "glum." And sales continued to drop. Nowhere was this made more obvious than by the speculator boom. People who were not even reading the books turned various titles into runaway hits, and once again the publishers responded with pandering. But, when the speculators sobered up, realized their "investments" were pretty much worthless and moved on, seeking other lands to plunder, sales plummeted. And NOT back to where they had been before the madness. That floor had been collapsed by the weight of greed and idiocy. Books that had sold 400,000 before the speculators sank to 90,000 or less when the speculators were gone.
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 7
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For all that we see the problems (I hope we do, anyway), the publishers' response has been "More of the same!" I just don't see much hope for comics coming out of SECRET WARS on one hand or CONVERGENCE on the other.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 8
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Not so very long ago the head honchos of both Marvel and DC told me, independently, that it would be GREAT to get the speculators back, and plans were afoot to do just that!
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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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All this talk makes me want to revisit JB's GENERATIONS miniseries!!
-C!
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'm afraid you're right about this, JB. Everything about these two mega-events smacks of "Hey, want to see us replay our greatest hits? We got ya covered!"
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Brad Hague
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Joined: 19 December 2006
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| Posted: 16 March 2015 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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The importance of Marvel getting Star Wars in comic form cannot be overstated for Marvel.
And a lot of the list seems just like bunk. A laundry list of things that happened. Some of it wasn't that important.
Moments that had lasting effect were things like Green Lantern/Arrow #76 (why did they list #79?), Giant Size X-Men #1 and the resurgence of monster titles in the early 70's. Well, some of them.
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Jack Bohn
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Joined: 13 July 2013
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| Posted: 19 March 2015 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | 12
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I do wonder about non-superhero comics sales or influence. After Star Wars, Marvel did try Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Indiana Jones, (and Micronauts and ROM to surprising success). And Super-Specials and Movie Specials were at least one-shotting other movies.
Earlier in the decade, Marvel Premier, and Marvel Preview, and I-don't-know-what-all, were trying out Seeker 3000 and Star-Lord, and adaptations of written SF. I imagine titles like these, and Showcase in the late '50s (didn't they try to revive that in the '70s?) relied on on a catchy cover and subtitle for newsstand sales.
Sorting the list as a sort of "search for popularity" I get:
3.Conan the Barbarian #1 (Oct 1970)
9.Swamp Thing-House of Secrets #92 (Jun-Jul 1971)
11.JonahHex-All-Star Western #10 (Feb-Mar 1972)
12.Tombof Dracula (Apr 1972)
17.Masterof Kung Fu-Special Marvel Edition #15 (Dec 1973)
19.Deathlokthe Demolisher-Astonishing Tales #24 (Aug 1974)
23.WonderWoman on TV (1975)
24.Howardthe Duck #1 (Jan 1976)
26.AmericanSplendor #1 (1976)
28.2000A.D. (Feb 1977)
29.HeavyMetal #1 (Apr 1977)
30.StarWars #1 (Jul 1977)
32.Cerebusthe Aardvark #1 (Dec 1977)
35.Elfquest-FantasyQuarterly #1 (Spring 1978)
36.Birthof the Graphic Novel-McGregor/Gulacy’s Sabre (Aug 1978)
37.Superman:TheMovie (Dec 1978)
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Topic Closed)
