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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1886
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 1
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"I wish Canada would join the rest of the western world and allow private health care. "
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In a sense, we do. If you are rich, and don't want to wait for treatment, you are free to cross the border and be treated without delay by private clinics in the USA. Hospitals in Buffalo do a booming business treating rich Ontarians who do not want to wait for treatment.
But I get your point. There was a story on last night's national news a that most people in Canada who need a hip replacement are now on wait lists for over 6 months to get the surgery done. The wait times are the result of provincial governments "controlling" healthcare costs by only funding a finite number of procedures each year. But if the cost of the surgery is say $10,000, should I not have the right to pay up front and go to the head of the line?
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J W Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 353
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 2
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Peter Hicks wrote:
| But if the cost of the surgery is say $10,000, should I not have the right to pay up front and go to the head of the line? |
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Well, no, because then everyone who doesn't have $10K gets pushed back one place. Very quickly, the people who have $10K in available funds all jump to the front of the queue, and start trying to outbid each other, pushing the price up, whilst the people who can save $10K move ahead of the people who have no money at all and those people effectively never get treated.
In the UK, notwithstanding our current Govt's very real attempts to dismantle the NHS, what happens is that private healthcare providers exist alongside the state provision. In your example, if you don't want to wait for the NHS treatment and you have the money, you go to the private provider and pay them instead. You get treated quicker, and the queue for the NHS treatment gets one shorter.
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 3
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I think you added something to Peter's point that wasn't there. As an individual, Peter should be able to pay the "cost" of the surgery for immediate treatment. The reason for the wait is not due to a "line" based on a limited number of doctors, but due to the finite funding to cover the cost of surgery. By paying for his hip surgery and completing it immediately, the number of government funded hip replacements remains unchanged and the wait is unchanged. It just tends to "feel" unfair as someone who has waited for five months will still have to wait one more month. But they will not have to wait for one month plus one day.
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J W Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 353
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 4
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Brian J Nelson wrote:
| The reason for the wait is not due to a "line" based on a limited number of doctors, but due to the finite funding to cover the cost of surgery. |
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You're absolutely right — I was assuming that the constraint on supply was that supply was at capacity, which is not the case in Peter's Canadian example. My apologies…
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 5
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I surprised to read Canada has no private health market because we certainly do have one in Quebec.
A few years back my wife suspected she had a cyst on her breast and we didn't hesitate and paid $200 at a private clinic. She got processed in record time with benign results than her boobs!
On the other hand, my Mother (who is deceased now) once spent 14 hours in public hospital emergency (at age 75) before she finally got seen by a doctor and another four hours before she was transferred of her gurney.
This talk of medical coverage makes me once more realize that the only reason I would have to want to be very wealthy would be to be capable of extending the best medical coverage possible to my family and friends.
I see no value in driving around in a $2,000,000 Ferrari (hey, our winters are Canadian!) or in weighing myself down with golden ornaments -- but I would have taken great pride in having my Mom taken in a decent ambulance to a very good hospital with immediate admission, private rooms with bathroom and TV, good food, and good friendly staff.
Or my wife better attended during our three pregnancies that became miscarriages.
Or being able to get my Mother a paid companion for keeping house, meals, and possibly first line of medical attention.
Or being able to afford the inevitable orthodontist bills that await me with my daughters.
Or being able to get new glasses more often since I keep sitting or stepping on them.
Ok, I'll go play the lottery now!!!
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Matthew Chartrand
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1357
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | 6
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My problem with Obamacare is that it made my insurance jump from $225 a month to over $1200.
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Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2065
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 10:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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The profit motive needs to be removed from healthcare.
And the name of the law is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, commonly abbreviated as the ACA. The people who coined the term "Obamacare" do not intend it as a compliment.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 04 March 2015 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 8
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I call it Obamacare and I mean it as a compliment. 'Course, I'm a Canadian liberal so any steps you folks take toward better healthcare is bound to get some applause from me, because I love not going broke whenever I have to visit a doctor and I'd like others to have that same experience.
Good on you, Yanks!
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Craig Markley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3969
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| Posted: 05 March 2015 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 9
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You may want to check again Matthew. You may be able to find better rates. Michigan approved a bill to expand Medicaid in April 2014. In December, a proposal was approved that contains cost-sharing provisions for Medicaid beneficiaries.
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Bill Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: 05 March 2015 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 10
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When Obamacare became active, my insurance rates just about doubled. That's not cool when you're self-employed and paying out of pocket.
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Bill Lancellotta
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 157
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| Posted: 05 March 2015 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 11
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I was just laid off last month and my wife is finishing
up her graduate studies. The Affordable Care Act is a
great boon to us, allowing us to retain medical coverage
during trying times. I hope the people in Washington
work toward improving the law and do not try to destroy
it for partisan political reasons.
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1414
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| Posted: 05 March 2015 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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Bill, I have no doubt that Obamacare has, on one hand, been a great benefit to your family and many others, but we wouldn't be honest if we didn't admit that it's been a nightmare for still others. We also have to admit, on a macro-level, that the program has failed in all of it's promises- it has not reduced budgetary stresses on the federal government, it has not reduced the rate of the uninsured, it hasn't improved access to care, it hasn't reduced the average cost of insurance, nor has it reduced the cost of care. People's lives have been affected, in many ways subjected to significant upheaval, and they ask themselves: for what? Perhaps a slight rearrangement of the status quo?
Americans are generous; we want to help our fellow human being succeed and prosper, but not at the cost of our own personal stability. We're not stupid; and we have a right to be angry.
As I suggested earlier, if those who crafted, passed, and signed Obamacare insisted upon a top-down, comprehensive federal program, they made a huge mistake by not simply creating a means-tested medicaid buy-in. Sure, there would have been funding concerns, but aside from esoteric budgetary impacts, it would have only touched the lives of those it helped.
Personally, I would have still lobbied against it (for fiscal reasons, as well as political philosophy), but those who crafted the law didn't need my support, they only needed to convince their own members and their supporters.
If I had my way- and I still might - we would have seen fifty-six unique reform programs, one in each of the fifty-six engines of democracy that together form the United States of America. Programs created for and by the citizens of each of the jurisdictions; argued, amended, and finally agreed upon. Some programs would succeed, some would fail, and perhaps some jurisdictions would make no changes at all. That is America at work.
And a total disregard for this unique American social contract is why so many of us, to this day, recoil from Obamacare, and from those who thrust it upon us.
But have heart, Obamacare supporters, word on the street is that the plaintiffs in this particular case are not hopeful after yesterday's proceedings. But don't too comfortable, you may soon have Scott Walker to contend with.
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