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Jeremy Simington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 1
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Matt Reed for president!
Obama has failings, like any president. I'm even really pissed about some of them. But, as Matt said, he inherited a shit-show from W. and has still succeeded on many fronts, including the trinity of triumphs this week alone. So, I'll stand by both of my "vapid votes", too.
Furthermore, after the GOP presidential candidates all agreed that yesterday's SCOTUS decision on gay marriage was wrong (the New York Times called it "striking unanimity"), I'll be making another vapid vote for Hilary in Nov. 2016.
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 2
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When elections hinge on the question of who you'd rather have a beer with, we're talking about a vapid electorate.
Given the disparity of voter turnout in primaries and general elections, between spring elections and fall elections, between presidential and off-year elections; the difference between votes cast at the top of the ballot and down ballot, I fail to see how anyone could characterize the current electorate as anything other than vapid (though glib is the other word I nearly chose).
For anyone reading these words, if you have a well thought out, consistent belief system you are not vapid. You can be wrong, or misguided, or ill-informed, or any number of infinite other ways, but vapid is not one of them.
The vapid are those who get caught up in a cult of personality, who participate in elections from time to time but don't what they believe; who cast their ballot for American president the way they would cast a ballot for American Idol, or who only cast a vote if the OFA worker happens drive a van to their front door.
It's no secret that the current president benefited greatly from these votes in 2008 and was reelected in 2012 entirely because of them. And that's fine, everyone's franchise belongs to them alone, and they can exercise it however they wish; but as I said, I do not trust such people to parse the subtleties of a Supreme Court decision.
For god's sake, even Jeremy Simington (who clearly has a well thought out, consistent belief system) is still suffering a fundamental misunderstanding of the Citizen's United case. If Jeremy Simington is unwilling to parse misinformation, should it surprise you that I have little faith that the college student who voted for our current president only because his girlfriend cried when he told her he was going to vote for Mitt Romney, or any other vapid voter would parse misinformation about King v. Burwell?
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35735
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 3
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Joseph Gauthier wrote:
| The vapid are those who get caught up in a cult of personality, who participate in elections from time to time but don't what they believe; who cast their ballot for American president the way they would cast a ballot for American Idol, or who only cast a vote if the OFA worker happens drive a van to their front door. |
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Substitute "van" for "carriage" or "horse" and what's different? What has changed? There will always be a disengaged electorate who barely know who they're voting for or why. You write this as if it's something new, as if it only came into existence over the last eight years. It's been happening since the second president took office. TR, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan...the cult of personality has been around for centuries. Look at the new election, same as the old.
What I'm getting at is that your statement has no worth. As to the rest of your posts in this thread, I don't think anyone could be more condescending and partisan. Exhibit A:
QUOTE:
| For anyone reading these words, if you have a well thought out, consistent belief system you are not vapid. You can be wrong, or misguided, or ill-informed, or any number of infinite other ways, but vapid is not one of them. |
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So although my belief system is "well thought out", it's either "wrong", "misguided" and/or "ill-informed". Oh, I know you'll say you included "infinite" but it's telling you only chose negatives with regard to the particular discussion of Obama here. Come down off that pedestal you're preaching from and join us in a real discussion, you know, actual discourse. If you can't do that without name calling, which is essentially what you're doing, then I'll please ask you to step aside so the adults can chat among ourselves.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14816
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 4
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It's no secret that the current president benefited greatly from these votes in 2008 and was reelected in 2012 entirely because of them.
-----
If the current president benefited from any vapidness, it's from a party that consistently panders to extreme social conservatives on social issues during the primaries and then has to backpedal during the general election to seem less crazy.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17671
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 5
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If you aren't willing to help the weakest and most vulnerable in your
society you're acting in a rather inhuman manner.
—
Blackbolt might take issue with that statement.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 6
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Joseph Gauthier wrote:
The vapid are those who get caught up in a cult of personality, who participate in elections from time to time but don't what they believe; who cast their ballot for American president the way they would cast a ballot for American Idol, or who only cast a vote if the OFA worker happens drive a van to their front door.
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It is true that there are a great deal of uninformed (perhaps even vapid) voters, who cast their votes based on trivial or arbitrary reasons. But you have not cited any evidence whatsoever to support your premise that Obama (or Democrats in general) have benefited disproportionally from such voters. Absent evidence, your implication that a greater percentage of people who vote Republican are well-informed and thoughtful appears to be derived from nothing more than arrogance and personal bias.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 27 June 2015 at 12:53pm
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Jeremy Simington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 7
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JOSEPH GAUTHIER: Jeremy Simington (who clearly has a well thought out, consistent belief system) is still suffering a fundamental misunderstanding of the Citizen's United case.
It is the height of irony to claim a better knowledge of the finer points of the Citizens United decision when one doesn't know that it's "Citizens", not "Citizen's"...is what I would say if I thought pedantry was anything but stupid & pointless. Instead, I recognize that it's a misplaced apostrophe and that you probably do know more about it than I. As Matt Reed said, when you want to engage in a fruitful discussion, leave the insults and come join the rest of us in a civil manner.
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John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3911
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 8
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Marc M. Woolman wrote:
| Before any government spends one penny of tax dollars on military/defense, or any other service, it should be using taxes to fund universal healthcare for all of its citizens. |
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Just curiously -- if some quirk of science and nature transported you back in time to December 8th, 1941, would you still feel the same way?
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Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: 27 June 2015 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 9
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People didn't get sick back in 1941?
They didn't contract disease or become
injured? They didnt have children?
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35735
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| Posted: 28 June 2015 at 1:22am | IP Logged | 10
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C'mon, John. Times of extreme stress require extreme measures. Dec. 8, 1941 would have been one of them. Marc was speaking in the general, you're speaking specific. It's apples and oranges. You can't play a "gotcha" moment here, if that's what you're looking for.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 28 June 2015 at 2:22am | IP Logged | 11
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Reading Joseph's words again, I can't help but feel there is more behind them than just a fundamental disagreement on how government should work. That would be all fine and good, right? I mean, we could come to some sort of agreement as to how we meet our end goal...maybe? But it's decidedly not that no matter what he has said it is or will say it is in rebuttal.
He's right.
You're wrong.
End of discussion.
No amount of passive/aggressive hand wringing will sidestep the notion that you've just been told you're an idiot if you voted for Obama once and "vapid" if you voted for him twice. And if you did happen to vote for him twice and feel like you're informed, you're simply "misguided" and (this is where the passive/aggressive part comes is) actually "ill-informed". There is, literally, no other option in his mind as to how Obama will have served 8 years.
It's this kind of partisan, elitist bullshit that I hate when discussing politics. As if Joseph has all the answers and if I'd only just open my eyes, I'd see how wrong I am.
Am I being condescending now? Yeah. I am. But my response is like/like. Because I feel like I'm being talked down to, I'll take that same tact in return.
Sue me.
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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:52am | IP Logged | 12
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$50k for a birth in America makes perfect sense when you realize that one of our country's founding and continually guiding principles is to exploit others for financial gain.
-------------- The Boldness of the above statement is mine. Please prove that statement. Show where that is written in any of the United States' founding documents.
Joe
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