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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:03am | IP Logged | 1
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Do you have an issue with childless couples paying property taxes that go to schools? Or can you acknowledge that even those taxes don't directly benefit those families, there is a societal benefit with public education by reducing crime and providing for an educated workforce?
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Actually, I do have a problem with that. Once you have children, you should pay taxes for the school district. Once your children graduate, the taxes should stop.
I pay over 5000 a year in property taxes and yet my school district is always cutting back programs. Music? No , AP classes? Barely, Art? nope.
When I pay for goods or services I (if I have chosen correctly) I have a measurable result that I can use to judge if I want to purchase those services again. I have no say in how my property taxes are used and If I not satisfied in the service I have no say in the matter.
In fact, technically, I don't even own my property, because if I don't pay the taxes, the property can and will be taken away from me.
Joe
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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:12am | IP Logged | 2
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If you have an issue with this, then you should be in support of universal health care, because this is the status quo that Republicans have been trying to uphold. Medical costs are driven up by the uninsured who don't receive preventive care and end up in the emergency room. These costs are passed on to the insured.
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Preventive care and emergency care are two different things. I can think of a lot of instances of people being in the emergency room that no amount of preventive care would have prevented.
Again my issue is being compelled by the government to pay for this care. At least with insurance companies, I can shop around to find a better price. I am not forced to buy Aetna or Blue Cross. Ifthey can compel me to pay for universal health care, they can compel me to pay for universal housing. They can compel me to pay for universal transportation.
I think this is a slippery slope.
Joe
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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:16am | IP Logged | 3
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If you aren't willing to help the weakest and most vulnerable in your society you're acting in a rather inhuman manner.
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Willing to help and being forced to help are two different things. I voluntarily give to charities I chose to give to. Choose...Not compelled.
Joe
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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:22am | IP Logged | 4
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Before any government spends one penny of
tax dollars on military/defense, or any
other service, it should be using taxes to
fund universal healthcare for all of its
citizens.
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If you don't protect your citizens first, you will not have citizens to provide healthcare for. Look up the definition of defense
In other words, you want your city goverment to pay for healthcare before they pay for a police force. When someone steals your property or hurts your love ones, maybe the hospital can help.
Joe
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:35am | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| Preventive care and emergency care are two different things. I can think of a lot of instances of people being in the emergency room that no amount of preventive care would have prevented. |
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And even then, the insured are getting costs passed along to them by the uninsured.
QUOTE:
| Again my issue is being compelled by the government to pay for this care. At least with insurance companies, I can shop around to find a better price. I am not forced to buy Aetna or Blue Cross. If they can compel me to pay for universal health care, they can compel me to pay for universal housing. They can compel me to pay for universal transportation.
I think this is a slippery slope. |
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Slippery slope arguments aren't very compelling.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:42am | IP Logged | 6
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If you don't protect your citizens first, you will not have citizens to provide healthcare for. Look up the definition of defense
In other words, you want your city goverment to pay for healthcare before they pay for a police force. When someone steals your property or hurts your love ones, maybe the hospital can help.
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Seriously?
1) When used in the context of the military, defense likely refers to government/military-industrial complex.
2) Why don't you at least ask Marc to clarify what he meant if you are confused, rather than taking a narrow definition of what he said and drawing absurd conclusions from it?
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 7
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If you aren't willing to help the weakest and most vulnerable in your society you're acting in a rather inhuman manner.
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Willing to help and being forced to help are two different things. I voluntarily give to charities I chose to give to. Choose...Not compelled.
Joe
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There's no way for charities to help the amount of people we can help through social programs. And its also much more cost effective to help people before they're in serious trouble. That's why preventative heath care cuts down costs.
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Dave Phelps
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 8
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Joe Welsh wrote:
| I have no say in how my property taxes are used and If I not satisfied in the service I have no say in the matter |
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Sure you do. You can protest, you can write letters, you can vote in the next election, etc. But "having a say" doesn't mean "getting your way." The Government has many many many "customers". Can't make them all happy all of the time.
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Jeremy Simington
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Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 9
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JOE WELSH: Once you have children, you should pay taxes for the school district. Once your children graduate, the taxes should stop. I pay over 5000 a year in property taxes and yet my school district is always cutting back programs. Music? No , AP classes? Barely, Art? nope.
You're going to want to rethink your logic here. Your position is that the schools are cutting back (i.e., not spending enough money/resources) on programs, therefore fewer people should have to pay school tax...which would result in decreased money/resources but would somehow allow the schools to restore/add programs???
Now, on to the more substantial problem, which is how to value education. Do we, as a society, value education? One would hope that we do, and there is a mountain of evidence indicating that we should because a better-educated society performs better on every indicator of societal health and productivity. Therefore, we all have a responsibility to provide the means to have a well-educated citizenry. The best way to accomplish this is through taxation. Now, there is a mighty argument to be made that our system of using property taxes to fund education is terribly flawed (I think that it is*). It clearly results in unjust imbalances, where wealthy communities have generally excellent public education and impoverished communities have generally lousy education. This system can, and should, be fixed. Nonetheless, given that all of society benefits from a strong public educational system, we must all value education, and are all responsible for contributing to this system through taxation.
*NOTE: I am childless and a property owner who lives in a state (PA) with one of those terribly flawed, property-tax-based funding systems for public education.
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