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Olav Bakken
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2014
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 1
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I had to pull out my old comic to read the issue again. The slogan "Do you know what your children are" appears to have been promoted by the mutant hater that was selected after Kelly was killed by mutants. Noticed the worries from Kelly himself was that mutants would eventually replace ordinary humans.
Much of the fear seems to be caused by both populism and social constructions. If it was the appearance of Cro-magnon in their area that cased the extinction of the Neanderthals, it means they were extinct for external reasons (some believe there are traces of Neanderthal DNA in the genome of Eurasian people, even if it's not relevant here). Then we are dealing with the extinction of a whole people, and its members will not be able to pass their genes on to future generations.
In the case of the mutants, the "threat" comes from within. Older generations will always eventually be replaced by younger generations anyway. Mutants are still the children of normal people, which means people are still passing on their genes to future generations. And evolution will still change our descendants if given enough time. Also, there are superhumans with the same powers which are not mutants, and therefore not of the same public interest.
Based on the logic behind the mutant fear, the whole thing is not really about mutants. It's about normal humans and how they fear they could face extinction even if their descendants will still be around. So it can't be about their genes either, but about the normality itself. They are scared there will no longer be any normal people left in the future. If there was a medical test that could determine if a baby was mutant and then sterilize it, performing a kind of eugenics that prevented everyone not normal from adding to the human gene pool, it would probably make people more relaxed. The same if one could perform gene therapy that removed the mutant traits from their genome completely.
Are those who fear and hate mutants simply afraid of a future (they may not even live to see) where everybody have superpowers, or because there will not be any normals left? Is it the normality itself they consider to be precious, or is it the ever present superpowers that is the problem, or both? If it is the superpowers, is it the superpowers themselves or what they will mean for social changes? Or maybe even envy? People have often been afraid of deep changes that happens too fast and removes the old society they are familiar with. Then it's not about the present, but the long term consequences of an increasing number of mutants, leading to normal people ending up as a minority before disappearing. But as mentioned, the mutants will still be their children, yet all they can imagine is the judgment day scenarios others warn about.
Because they would be so different and diverse from their ancestors, a world of mutants would create the illusion of some newcomers taking over the civilization. Still, it is also the statistics; because of the high number some would be dangerous and cause a lot more damage than individuals with little to no powers. Making the world a more dangerous place for the weaker ones. If someone could offer proof that people would still be safe also in the future, that the old society and the traditions would survive, it would take away much of the resistance. And everything is still a what-if scenario that only means something if the number of mutants continue to increase (referring to the older storylines before the amount of mutants in the Marvel universe exploded). If the numbers remains the same or even are in decline, there should be no reason to worry.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 2
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Are you looking for logical, valid arguments to explain why
people are bigots? It is "fear of them." That is it. Logic
or reason isn't part of it. Even defining who "them" is
pure fear of something different, and not based upon reason
or logic.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 3
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I had to pull out my old comic to read the issue again. The slogan "Do you know what your children are" appears to have been promoted by the mutant hater that was selected after Kelly was killed by mutants. Noticed the worries from Kelly himself was that mutants would eventually replace ordinary humans•• It matters not where the slogan started. What it underscores is the not-so-irrational fear that any normal couple in the MU could produce a mutant child. It reflects thinking that was not uncommon when I was a child myself. There was an urban legend that Doris Day had given birth to a Black child, this apparently because one of her ancestors had had relations with one of his slaves. Whether Doris Day's family had ever been in a position to own slaves was not considered. The key -- and the fear -- was that a White couple could sort of spontaneously produced a Black child. Seek not logic in bigotry!
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Olav Bakken
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2014
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 4
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"Are you looking for logical, valid arguments to explain why people are bigots? It is "fear of them." That is it. Logic or reason isn't part of it. Even defining who "them" is pure fear of something different, and not based upon reason or logic."
No, I'm not speculating about bigotry in general. I'm just trying to find out why mutants specifically are feared and hated in the Marvel universe.
1. Mutants are not strangers, they are their own flesh and blood.
2. There are other beings with superpowers as well that don't have to deal with the same fear and hate because they are not mutants.
3. Mutants used to be so few that they were outnumbered by other humans with superpowers, and they still caused fear.
The way people think about them when they count millions and is growing in number every day is not the same as when there is just a fear about what might happen sometime in the future while they are so few that most people have probably not even seen a mutant.
Mutants becoming a majority will cause social changes and put an end to normality amongst humans. The question is; in what ways is this a bad thing, and what can be done about it?
Edited by Olav Bakken on 27 May 2015 at 10:00am
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Olav Bakken
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2014
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 5
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"It reflects thinking that was not uncommon when I was a child myself. There was an urban legend that Doris Day had given birth to a Black child, this apparently because one of her ancestors had had relations with one of his slaves."
I see. But if a white woman gives birth to a black baby because of black relatives in the bloodline, it is a little different than having a baby that is black because of a mutation. The example about Doris Day also show that the genotype don't mean that much as long as it is not reflected in the phenotype.
There could also be parents who disliked having a normal child that could not compete with all the other children at school who stood out because of some extraordinary abilities.
Anyway, it is to be expected that many would hate the idea of mutants multiplying in society. But in present day X-Men universe this concept seems to have become so dominant that the mutants barely are able to take a break from all of it like they could allow themselves to do in the old days.
Edited by Olav Bakken on 27 May 2015 at 10:12am
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 6
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"Are you looking for logical, valid arguments to explain
why people are bigots? It is "fear of them." That is it.
Logic or reason isn't part of it. Even defining who "them"
is pure fear of something different, and not based upon
reason or logic."
No, I'm not speculating about bigotry in general. I'm just
trying to find out why mutants specifically are feared and
hated in the Marvel universe
The why is fear. Fear is not logical. Fear is not based on
reason. You are not going to find a satisfactory reason
because there is none.
Or maybe this week satisfy you: Mutants are feared and
hated because Marvel said so. It is fiction and that is
how Marvel wrote it.
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Olav Bakken
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 7
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"Mutants are feared and hated because Marvel said so. It is fiction and that is how Marvel wrote it."
Maybe so, but it's not the fictional elements that I had in mind. Even humans populating a comic book world will behave in a way that is recognizable for the readers.
Considering the X-Men intro (feared and hated by the world they have sworn to protect), a natural question is exactly why it is so. Which is what has been discussed today.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 8
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Look at it this way. If there was a good reason, then all
the bigots are right. That is why it is bigotry, because
there is no valid reason. A valid reason would justify
their actions. The reason a bigot is wrong is because
their fears and actions are based upon errors that are a
product of fears, assumptions or similar illogical things.
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Olav Bakken
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 9
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It doesn't mean they are always wrong. As in the case of X-Men some years back, they feared that mutants should replace the rest of humanity, which is what was actually happening. What matters is how they relate to it. And what they eventually intend to do about it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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I see. But if a white woman gives birth to a black baby because of black relatives in the bloodline, it is a little different than having a baby that is black because of a mutation. The example about Doris Day also show that the genotype don't mean that much as long as it is not reflected in the phenotype.••• "Even a man who is pure of heart, and says his prayers at night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms, and the moon is bright." Among our deepest human fears is that something BAD can happen to us, no matter how GOOD we are. And what could be more terrifying than that this should express itself thru our children? This is the core of mutant hatred.
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Chuck Wells
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1244
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| Posted: 28 May 2015 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 11
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I miss having a single monthly title, featuring work by top talent that included an X-Men lineup consisting of Cyclops, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Wolverine with occasional guest shots by the other founding members. As a caveat, I liked Banshee too!
I felt as if Charles Xavier actually should have permanently died many, many years ago with his "life's vision" continuing to inspire or divide mutantkind based upon selective interpretation peculiar to an individual characters depiction.
I just don't buy comics much anymore, generally just a few old back issues at a couple of shows a year; so I don't really have any reason to complain.
Edited by Chuck Wells on 28 May 2015 at 12:19pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 28 May 2015 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 12
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I felt as if Charles Xavier actually should have permanently died many, many years ago with his "life's vision" continuing to inspire or divide mutantkind based upon selective interpretation peculiar to an individual characters depiction. ••• But that assumes these stories are best when told as an ongoing progression, rather than as a series of snapshots that all take place at the same imaginary time.
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Topic Closed)
