Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 44 Next >>
Topic: Spider-Man - presented without comment (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Brandon Pennison
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 472
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 1  

When I first heard about the Superior Spider-man story and what it was about I shuddered.  I thought that a series about Doc Ock as Spider-man would be horrible.  Having actually read the entire story that you produced, I have to say it was one of the most entertaining stories about Spider-man done in a long long time.  Honestly, your run has been really entertaining, Dan.  

If people would maintain an open mind and actually read what you write, they may see things differently. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 2  

The Peter Parker parts are "gloomy." That's why he escapes into being Spider-Man. Simple, yet beyond the grasp of so many, it seems.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 3  

If people would maintain an open mind and actually read what you write, they may see things differently.

•••

That door swings both ways.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Dan Slott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 45
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 4  

"The Peter Parker parts are "gloomy." That's why he escapes into being Spider-Man. Simple, yet beyond the grasp of so many, it seems."

I think there are excellent stories that go that tested and true route.

And along with those are so many more hues to that dichotomy, things that Stan, Steve, John Sr., and all the greats added and enhanced to that core dynamic.

Sometimes it's fun to see a happy Peter Parker, that guy who gives a wink to Betty Brant as they're hiding under the desk. Or a Pete who's beaming because he pulled a trick on Flash Thompson-- or finally scored a point on Jonah. And sometimes being Spider-Man is a grim responsibility that he MUST stick to-- the thing that is NOT an escape, but an intrusion into his small patch of happiness.

It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be a wide canvas with lots of different variations.

But yeah, sometimes real life is getting him down, and throwing on that costume and swinging through the sky is the best thing ever!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 5  

My hope, as a fan and as someone who runs a comic shop, was that Secret Wars was actually going to reset all of the garbage that's been piled onto all of these characters.

Instead, Marvel is embracing change for change's sake.

Using the Miles Morales/Peter Parker examples being used in this thread, why is it Peter Parker that had to be so altered as to be almost unrecognizable?  It makes a lot more sense to me that the big cosmic shaking "event"(yawn) that somehow brings Morales out of the Ultimate world to the Marvel world would change him.

I mean, why not change Morales into a new Tony Stark and revert Parker to high school age and reset things back to "normal"?

But, I think it's very difficult to defend what the big two are doing.  I'm regularly trying to help parents find comics that are acceptable to them for their kids to read.  I shouldn't have to ferret out something like that on the new comics rack.  I should be able to just pick any Marvel or DC book and they'll be fine, but I can't.

I really appreciate Dan Slott's input but it all just sounds like tap-dancing and towing the company line.  Today's mainstream comics certainly have some fans but they're definitely not appropriate for all audiences and that is a PROBLEM.

What all of the current fanboys in charge of things have really accomplished is to alienate most of their fanbase and prevent younger fans from participating.  Sure, the few that are a part of "the club" are happy but today's books are failing on many levels.

So, thanks again Dan but I think you've only reinforced my perception that those at Marvel just don't get it.  


Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2065
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 6  

One of the things that resonated with me most about the second Toby Maguire movie was Peter's everyday problems / struggles.
I remember singing the praises of this movie to a friend, and specifically this aspect of the movie, and telling him, "he can't pay the rent, he can't pay the rent..."

No less heroic at the end.  If anything, more so, because he was just a regular guy like us who stood up and did what had to be done, regardless of the personal hardship.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Dan Slott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 45
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 7  

"That door swings both ways."

Agreed. I've read a great deal of your vast library of work, have thoroughly enjoyed it, value it, praised it (a lot in this past day or so, in fact), and am endlessly inspired by it.


Edited by Dan Slott on 01 July 2015 at 10:39am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Dan Slott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 45
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 8  

"I mean, why not change Morales into a new Tony Stark and revert Parker to high school age and reset things back to "normal"?"

One, you want creators who want to tell stories they're invested in.
Brian wants to tell these kinds of stories with Miles.
I want to tell these upcoming stories with Peter.
(Would you rather have creators strapped down to chairs and force them to type out stories they aren't invested in?)

On top of that, the Secret Wars event was never intended to be a hard reboot. There was no version of the Post Secret Wars landscape where any character was going to be magically de-aged. Characters coming over from another universe? Sure. That makes sense due to the nature of the Secret Wars storyline. Magically zapped into something else? Nope.

"But, I think it's very difficult to defend what the big two are doing.  I'm regularly trying to help parents find comics that are acceptable to them for their kids to read.  I shouldn't have to ferret out something like that on the new comics rack.  I should be able to just pick any Marvel or DC book and they'll be fine, but I can't."

Then here are some suggestions:
The MS. MARVEL title is very much in the vein of classic Spidey stories. It is suitable for boys and girls of all ages. It gets rave reviews. Sells through like nobody's business. And is one hell of a good book!

UNBEATABLE SQUIRREL GIRL is a riot! It's written by a writer from the wildly popular Adventure Time characters. Every issue is a great jumping on point and it is a FANTASTIC book for parents and kids to read together.

THE SILVER SURFER (shameless plug) is a book that Mike Allred and I take great pleasure in-- and have been getting great feedback from fans of all ages! And there's nothing in this book that is even remotely objectionable for kids.

I challenge you to try all three of these titles for yourself and give me a good reason why you can't recommend them to the younger customers in your store.

"I really appreciate Dan Slott's input but it all just sounds like tap-dancing and towing the company line."

I make a nice living doing comics. But end of the day, I could be making a lot more in advertising. And I could be making a lot more in COMICS by jumping ship for creator owned work. I do it because I genuinely love writing Spider-Man and Silver Surfer. Spider-Man's my favorite character of all time-- and Silver Surfer is the first Marvel U. character I ever read about. It's a job, but it's also a calling that I care a great deal about. I don't "tap dance", I strut. :)

"Today's mainstream comics certainly have some fans but they're definitely not appropriate for all audiences and that is a PROBLEM."

Well, give MS. MARVEL, SQUIRREL GIRL, and SILVER SURFER a go, and I think you'll find your problem's solved. :-D
Back to Top profile | search
 
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 9  

No less heroic at the end.  If anything, more so, because he was just a regular guy like us who stood up and did what had to be done, regardless of the personal hardship.

This reminds me of the "more-relatable" argument that fans offer when stating their preference of Batman over Superman.  Talk about a stretch.  Sure, I may be the same species as Batman but his life and fortune are so far removed from anything I've experienced that he might as well be from Krypton.

Personally, I have no interest in seeing Peter Parker dealing with the trials and tribulations as the head of a corporation and juggling his millions(billions?) of dollars.

Peter Parker is Gilligan.  Once you take Gilligan off the island, you've fundamentally changed the character.  Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but does it really serve a purpose or help the show to do such a thing?

There's no reason Parker can't forever be a high school aged kid.  Comic book characters don't have to age.  It is the creator's responsibility to come up with interesting stories about that character.  There's a big difference between contemporize and fundamental change.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 10  

Well, give MS. MARVEL, SQUIRREL GIRL, and SILVER SURFER a go, and I think you'll find your problem's solved.

*********************************************
Funny enough, I was in my LCS today and a guy asked him which comic would be best for his 9 year-old and the guy sort of struggled to find more than three. Really? I know I sound like an old man but back in my day I wouldn't have a problem picking at least ten books.

I just think Marvel have lost the plot and continue to cater to a smaller and smaller audience.

BTW, I do appreciate reading your views on the subject.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 11  

There's no reason Parker can't forever be a high school aged kid. Comic book characters don't have to age. It is the creator's responsibility to come up with interesting stories about that character. There's a big difference between contemporize and fundamental change.

•••

Reportedly, Ditko was against having Parker leave high school. There is a specific age frame in which a guy can be the kind of goof-up Peter often was. Take him out of that age frame and, yes, he becomes a "loser."

But aging fans become aging pros, and they want to see and produce stories that appeal more directly to their immediate needs. Who needs Parker struggling to summon up the courage to ask out the prettiest girl in his class! Let's see him struggling to pay his mortgage!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Dan Slott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 45
Posted: 01 July 2015 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 12  

"There's no reason Parker can't forever be a high school aged kid.  Comic book characters don't have to age." 
Andy, that barn door's already open. Genie's out of that bottle. Whoosh.

You own a comic shop. Reality time: How many Marvelites would spontaneously combust if Marvel did a hard reboot and 616 Peter were back in high school? Eagerly awaiting an honest answer. ;-)

"It is the creator's responsibility to come up with interesting stories about that character."

I feel confident that when people actually read the book we're putting out-- instead of the one that's theoretically in some of their heads right now-- they'll see that's exactly what we're doing. The All-New AMAZING SPIDER-MAN run will be interesting stories about Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 44 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login