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Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 1
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You're asking why can't we just-please-stay-inside-the-preestablished-lines? And in the long run, that's a sure fire path towards predictability.
I'm curious Dan, is that it for Peter Parker? I mean, as a character can he ever go back to being the teenage hero? Or, is it to the point where he has to remain a middle-ager?
I consider the basic parameters of a character to be a foundation/baseline from around which good stories about supporting, recurring and even new characters can be created.
As has been said by many, if one is compelled to change the character because it's "boring" or "predictable" then maybe it's time for them to move on. The stories should revolve around the character, the character shouldn't be changed to fit the story.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3142
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 2
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Level of disdain???
JB only said that James should raise his respect meter.
Dan please re-read JB's intent.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3142
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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Before Marvel went bankrupt they published comicbooks about SuperHeroes, then when Jemas took over it became increasingly more like a distancing from what makes comicbook SuperHeroes great.
Which brings us to today, where the big name comic characters the we love are no longer accesible to children.
No SuperHeroics, no Good Guys, no Fun.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 4
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On the subject of "The Simpsons":
Yeah, it's best days critically-speaking seem behind them according to most critics and long-term fans. However, using that as some sort of justification for massive changes in comics characters kind of falls flat upon examination. After all, FOX certainly seems happy enough that the series is continuing for the next couple of years. That tells me the ratings have been strong in this series that has now lasted a quarter century, which would seem to suggest that keep Bart, Lisa, Maggie, et al, at the status quo has worked for the network and the series.
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Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that the Simpsons should be aged, but the ratings are ever-shrinking and the 18-49 demographic even more so, which reads to me that they are not bringing in new fans and are clinging to an aging fanbase. Meanwhile, many of the people citing the Simpsons should not change also state that it peaked 17 years ago and they haven't watched it much since.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3142
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 5
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So what?
If Bill Watterson brought back CALVIN & HOBBES should Calvin be middle-aged, just like Peter Parker??
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 6
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So what?
If Bill Watterson brought back CALVIN & HOBBES should Calvin be middle-aged, just like Peter Parker??
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QUOTE:
| Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that the Simpsons should be aged |
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Edited by Michael Roberts on 01 July 2015 at 3:07pm
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3142
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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God forbid Road Runner was ever a Marvel comic, the currnet writers would be compelled to let Coyote capture and eat him.
Writer x :"It was getting repetitive and boring to write the stories, and I had to stay interested, so I thought a change in the status quo was the way to go."
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12436
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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C'mon. Long story short: You took a cheap shot at Jason Aaron's work on a book you've never even read, and I called you out on it. Don't do that internet-thing where you have to be right-no-matter-what. That doesn't lead to any kind of productive conversation at all.
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There's no "internet-thing" going on here, Mr. Slott. We are all discussing comicbooks, and nothing else. I did take a shot at Mr. Aaron's work but, to me, it's not remotely "cheap" because my opinion is that the best comicbooks are not something to hide from kids. All ages is the ideal, and it used to be the standard. We clearly differ on this. I might have very well said that any particular comicbook is not my cup of tea and left it at that, but I don't see how that kind of bland diffidence results in productive conversations.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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I know Michael (Roberts) , I'm just fired up. :)
Edited by Lars Sandmark on 01 July 2015 at 3:10pm
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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If gaining new readers is the goal, I think the model to follow is the Transformers franchise, which manages to get new generations of fans. They pretty much reboot the mythos every few years, and beyond a vague sketch of two warring factions of refugee transforming robots led by leaders named Optimus and Megatron (and sometimes even this is skipped), the iterations are very different.
As much as I love having the illusion of a continuous history for a character, it's that continuity which is damaging the industry. If we stopped thinking in those terms, then it wouldn't matter if Peter became a tech mogul, because eventually that storyline would run its course, and Spider-Man would return to some status quo without concern over how that history affected his character.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6100
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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Michael: We are all discussing comicbooks, and nothing else.
**
More specifically, Thor comic books, right?
But the idea that a Thor comic should be readable by kids gets waved
aside with a "read Silver Surfer if that's the kind of writing you want. This
is great writing like Watchmen and Love and Rockets".
The idea that when Thor gets written like Watchmen, there might be
something inherently wrong is outside the scope of some people's ability
to see.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 01 July 2015 at 3:42pm
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
| I mean, as a character can he ever go back to being the teenage hero? Or, is it to the point where he has to remain a middle-ager? |
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Peter is currently in his 20s, not middle aged.
I wholeheartedly agree that Peter Parker works best as a teenager. That being said, there's no clean way of doing that without rebooting the entire Spider-Man continuity - and by extension, the rest of the Marvel Universe, including the characters that don't need "fixing".
DC have shown us, countless times, what goes wrong when you do a haphazard partial reboot.
The best compromise, I think, would be to find a way to firmly re-establish Peter Parker as a student. After the Clone Saga, Peter and Mary Jane started attending university again, which was a step in the right direction. For some reason this set-up was dropped around the time of the 1999 relaunch.
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Topic Closed)
