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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132132
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 1
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BillCollins: I`d say the first image the only flesh on display is a bit of thigh,which is no more or less than classic Wonder Woman displays.The second image is overtly sexual.Bob Harvey: Bill, if the White Queen's costume doesn't strike you as overtly sexual, whether because of some arbitrary skin allowance or otherwise, we're never going to agree. Me: The main difference is that my costume design was still kid-friendly. An adult or older teen would bring a different understanding to what I had drawn than would an average 10 year old -- at least, in the fading days of the Seventies. My drawing would not make a kid "feel funny inside."
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Marc Cheek Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2014 Location: United States Posts: 1785
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 2
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My drawing would not make a kid "feel funny inside."
**
Sorry - that made me laugh!
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Mike Baswell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1966
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 3
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The image on the right is FUGLY! No two ways about it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132132
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 4
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I just realized all that bare skin on Quitely's Queen is supposed to be an X, only he didn't bring the top point of her shorts high enough to make it clear. The pose and facial expression read to me as contemptuous. That's something I seem to see a lot in Quitely's superhero work. Like that shot of Superman "sitting on a cloud," looking back over his shoulder at the viewer with a Pretty great, aren't I? expression on his face. Quitely is a superb artist, but all his superhero work leaves me feeling vaguely deflated. The grandeur is lacking.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8009
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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I feel the same way. What I've seen of his WE3 looks spectacular. But his X-Men did me the favor of breaking my nearly 20-year attachment to buying the titles. They stopped acting like the X-Men long before 2001, but thanks to Quitely, they no longer even looked like them!
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12406
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 6
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The Quitely Queen seems so blasé, she can't even be bothered to sneer. But the Byrne Queen is alive, keenly interested in what's going on, with a wisp of wicked smile, and that makes the reader anticipate something really interesting to happen!
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Eric Smearman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 5796
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 7
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One of the biggest reasons I can't read X-MEN anymore - no matter how good it may or may not be - is that I can't embrace the idea of Emma Frost being a good guy (Don't even get me started on her and Cyclops being a couple!). The White Queen made for an excellent villain. Last time I checked, good villains weren't so easy to create that you could just reform them on a whim.
Edited by Eric Smearman on 29 July 2015 at 10:56pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132132
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 8
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One of the biggest reasons I can't read X-MEN anymore - no matter how good it may or may not be - is that I can't embrace the idea of Emma Frost being a good guy (Don't even get me started on her and Cyclops being a couple!). The White Queen made for an excellent villain. Last time I checked, good villains weren't se easy to create that you could just reform them on a whim.••• A recurrent theme on the internet -- and in corners of our society -- is that everybody is capable of, and entitled to, redemption. This often takes the form of picturing Hitler being captured at the end of WW2, and rehabilitated. I suspect this springs from an all-too-common attitude, especially among young people, that they cannot truly be held responsible for their actions. They were shaped by their environment, and must be allowed to say "Oops, my bad!" And be excused. Not without reason have so many recent superhero movies taken the Redemption angle for the origin story, even if it was not there in the original. And so a character like Emma Frost can become "good" because the writer said so.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30832
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 9
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And oddly, it wasn't Claremont that made her a hero!
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John Popa Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 March 2008 Posts: 4360
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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At least in this case, the tone of Quitely's drawing was in line with how she was portrayed in the stories he illustrated. (Whether that's a correct interpretation of the character is another conversation, of course.) I enjoy Quitely's non-Marvel and DC work quite a bit but agree he's not the right fit for mainstream super hero comics.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11245
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 11
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`Ooops my bad!` And be excused`
Puts me in mind of that dentist who shot the lion,he apologised cos he thought he was `hunting` it legally,never mind that he`s morally despicable. A symptom of our times.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 12
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It pays sometimes to have the original intent in mind before starting out. It was said in one of the fan publications; The Comics Journal, X-Men Companion or the Art of John Byrne, I don't remember which; that the Hellfire Club members were loosely based upon existing celebrities of the time. Donald Pierce was modeled after Donald Sutherland (the original Hawkeye Pierce.) Jason Wyngarde was taken from Peter Wyngarde (who had played Jason King.) Sebastian Shaw was based upon Robert Shaw. Henry Bishop was Orson Welles, more or less.
And Emma Frost was based upon Faye Dunaway, a template later artists either were not aware of or ignored.
Faye Dunaway was of course an excellent choice for a villain because as we all know she later went on to beat her children with wire coat hangers and tried to kill Supergirl.
Okay, no. Not really.
(Note: As pointed out on page four of this thread, I had a photo of the wrong celebrity up. Hilary Duff did a Bonnie & Clyde tribute shoot for Allure magazine in 2008 and the picture I posted was from there... I'm fairly certain these photos are now actually Faye Dunaway... Like better than 70% sure... Okay, maybe less...)
Edited by Brian Hague on 02 August 2015 at 12:33am
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