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Topic: Is Stan Lee Damaged Goods ? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Popa
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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 1  

To most people Stan Lee IS comics.  Whenever I tell people that I regularly attend comic book conventions, the inevitable first question is 'have you met Stan Lee?'  This is even from people who've never read a comic in their life. 

 

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Bill Guerra
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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 2  

Yeah, Stan is on a whole other level as far as comics creators go in that the general public actually knows who he is. I've not encountered that with any other creators (with all due respect to JB). Stan Lee is definitely on the Mount Rushmore of comic book creators. Nuff said! :)

Edited by Bill Guerra on 30 July 2015 at 3:13pm
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Don Berner
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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 3  

If it wasn't Kirby or Ditko controversies it'd be something else. People will always find a reason to resent those who are successful.

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Peter Martin
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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 4  

The internet tends to give voice to those who are the most bitter and angry. the squeaky wheel and all that, but I think the broader public thinks of Stan as a good guy (and rightly so, in my opinion).

There's no question that Jack could have been treated better, but that's more to do with the nature of the industry back then than anything else. The guys that owned Marvel didn't value Jack as highly as Stan, but given how Stan has spoken loudly and often about how much of a contribution Jack, Steve and others made in those early days, I don't see how this can be blamed on Stan. 
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Jason Larouse
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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 5  

When he dies, the negativity will largely go away and people will focus on the positives. 

Well, The Comics Journal will probably publish a negative contrarian obituary but that's about it.  
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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | 6  

Stan played a dual role: as editor, co-plotter and dialogue writer he was an artist.

But, as an employee, he was also a "company man". "Company men often get corporate rewards that freelancers don't get.

Had Kirby accepted a full-time position and also become a "company man", he might have gotten a bigger cut in the long run. There was a point where Stan was paid a million a year for a while just for being "Stan".

That being said, I dunno if there could have been a "Stan" and a "Jack" at Marvel at the same time: even the Beatles split up.

And I hope Stan is remembered for his skills and for being a nice, likeable guy, who just happened to play the corporate political game better than Kirby or Ditko but who nevertheless had a genuine artistic voice and vision that was unique -- and helped keep the comic book industry going a few decades longer than it would normally have.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 7  

Even the haters should have to admit that at a bare minimum, even if you somehow think that Kirby and Ditko plotted and scripted every single Marvel story without any input whatsoever from Stan, you'd have to acknowledge that Stan Lee must have been one of the greatest editors and talent scouts of all time.  Even if you were such a Lee-hater that you refused to acknowledge that he'd written so much as a word of script, you'd have to tip your hat to him for hiring Kirby and Ditko, giving them the means to produce and publish the greatest superhero comics of the Silver Age, and keeping out of their way enough to let them make great comics.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 3:01am | IP Logged | 8  

Yeah, Stan is on a whole other level as far as comics creators go in that the general public actually knows who he is. I've not encountered that with any other creators (with all due respect to JB).

•••

I'm not sure what this means. It seems as if you are suggesting I imagine myself to be on the same level as Stan.

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Joe Hollon
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 9  

I don't know how anyone can NOT see the obvious collaboration between Stan and Jack as creating a whole greater than the parts.  I think people who don't see it don't WANT to see it or perhaps haven't even read enough comics to really have an informed opinion.  Here's just the truth:

1- Read the great Stan and Jack comics from the zenith of the Marvel Age (Thor, Fantastic Four, etc)...some of the most highly acclaimed mainstream superhero comics ever, right?
2- Now make a list of all the great comics written by Stan Lee after Jack left Marvel.  Not many coming to mind, right?
3- Now go read Jack Kirby comics after he left Marvel and into the 70s....New Gods, Devil Dinosaur, Machine Man, Demon, etc.....I love those Kirby comics I just listed but there is no question they feel and sound differently than the comics that were made with Stan Lee. 

No one can convince me both men weren't at their best because of their collaboration with each other. 
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 10  

JOE: No one can convince me both men weren't at their best because of
their collaboration with each other.

SER: I've read similar comments about, say, Lennon and McCartney.
That might be true, but it might also be possible that they were both at
their peaks when working together. For me, it's sufficient to say that the
work they produced jointly is among my favorites.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 11  

An alternate reality I'd like to visit is the one where the Fourth World books were scripted by Stan and inked by Joe Sinnott and Wally Wood. And if Al Williamson had some free time...
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Joe Hollon
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 12  

JB, I was about to make almost the same point (which you didn't really make but I guess I'm reading between the lines)...I'm pretty sure in the alternate reality JB described the Fourth World would've been the greatest of all the Stan/Jack collaborations.  It is SO amazing as it is....and it failed.  Why?  What was missing?  Could it be.....Stan?
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