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Topic: OT: Candidates For Shakespeare Authorship (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 05 September 2015 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 1  

Since March of this year, and based on a compelling topic started a while back by Mr. Byrne, I have been reading up on and researching the Shakespeare authorship debate. Fascinating stuff. Some of the books were rather expensive - but I've found a website or two with information on. And plenty of reasonably-priced books.

First of all, a thank you to Mr. Byrne and others for igniting my passion for this subject (I may have spoken about it a little too much with family recently!). Based on what I've read, looked at and studied, I am convinced that someone other than William Shakespeare wrote the books. This is based on Mr Byrne's entirely logical comments in the old topic here (which I read in full this week) and the various books/websites.

I'm not really here to debate with those who don't believe others wrote the book. Free speech is fine. All I'll say is that this topic has been "designed" for those, like me, who have come to the conclusion that someone other than William Shakespeare wrote those books. Of course, having only studied this since March of 2015, I know far, far less than others.

The main candidates, based on who I've read up on, are Francis Bacon, Edward de Vere and Christopher Marlowe. There's the group theory, too. A simple Google search will reveal many websites pertaining to the authorship debate - and a list of books, some of which may be out of print or very expensive. I haven't read up on other candidates such as Mary Sidney or Walter Raleigh.

So, to anyone interested, and to those who believe someone other than Shakespeare wrote the books, attributed to him, who do you think is the most likely candidate? There are compelling reasons for all the names mentioned above!

http://shakespeareanauthorshiptrust.org.uk/pages/candidates/ bacon.htm

http://shakespeareanauthorshiptrust.org.uk/pages/candidates/ devere.htm

http://shakespeareanauthorshiptrust.org.uk/pages/candidates/ marlowe.htm

I'd welcome any views. It has been a fascinating six months of reading on this subject (not that I've been doing it 24/7). I can't help but think there is far more insight to come. That said, I would not be able to decide between Bacon, de Vere and Marlowe, given the compelling reasons listed in the link above (and the books I have read).


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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 2  

Marlowe requires too great a conspiracy -- including faking his own death!

That's one of the reasons my preference is for DeVere. No conspiracy required at all. Just Elizabethan business-as-usual.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 3  

For me, based only on what I've read, it's Bacon or DeVere - but I'd say leaning more towards DeVere. Fascinating stuff, anyway.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 4  

There are many problems with DeVere as a candidate, as Stratfordians are quick to point out. Significantly, tho, what is know of his life is a better fit for Shakespeare than what is known of the Stratford Man.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 6:46am | IP Logged | 5  

It's great stuff, sir. Really interesting subject, glad I discovered it.

I'm not that convinced by the group theory, though.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 6  

I'm not that convinced by the group theory, though.

••

Studies of the writing techniques over the years have suggested several hands at work in the plays of Shakespeare. There are any number of ways to explain this. Stratfordians suggest the older man, tired and nearing death, had others helping him. Also, they suggest he spent his final years rewriting the plays of others. (Yes, Stratfordians would rather cast their man as a plagiarist than somebody else.)

Of course, it could also mean some of the later plays were assembled from drafts, fragments, notes, etc, the actual author (DeVere) being dead. The problem is we don't know when any of the plays were actually WRITTEN, only when they were first PERFORMED. Manuscripts could have been lying around for years, dusted off and trotted out later with various add-ons to "update" them.*

(Years ago I saw a performance of Gilbert & Sullivans' MIKADO which pointed to this problem. In the Executioner's song, a reference was made to Rubik's Cubes, which did not exist in the time of G&S.)

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* Stratfordians make a case for THE TEMPEST being written years after DeVere was dead, since it references a shipwreck, and there was a famous shipwreck around the time it was first performed. Aside from the fact that this could have been inserted to make the play "topical," shipwrecks were common. DeVere lost a sizable fortune investing in a ship that was wrecked under much the same conditions during his lifetime. Write what you know?

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 7  

Intriguing stuff, thank you.

The most frustrating thing about this topic is the price of books (understandable, given some are out of print). Saw one on Amazon UK for abotu £100+. Thankfully, many cheaper books and free websites are available.

The most bizarre one I came across was the theory, if it can be called that, which stated Ben Jonson is the real author. Seemed to be clutching at straws and with no real logic. At least arguments for Bacon, DeVere and others have some logic in favour.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 8  

We know about as much of the why, when, where, and how of Shakespeare writing his plays as we do about Homer writing his poems. That's essentially why non-Stratfordians think that just like Homer the Author is more properly "Homer" so to Shakespeare should be "Shakespeare." That's the nutshell, anyway. And, whether one doubts Stratfordian authorship or not, an honest of appraisal of the facts doesn't differ on that.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 9  

I have no problem with the Author being called Shakespeare, any more than I have a problem with Mark Twain.

(And Sam Clemens was an anti-Stratfordian. I wonder what he would have made of Edward DeVere?)

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 10  

Is "Shakespeare" indeed a nom-de-plume? Can even the most convinced and committed Stratfordian tell us anything in fact about the writing of the plays? If not, is it more likely despite this paucity that the Stratford Man is the sole (or even primary) Author, or that, to put the question in the most generous way possible to the Stratfordians, something else happened?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 11  

I wonder if that film ANONYMOUS is worth watching. Not many 2-hour films can do justice to certain concepts. Well, I doubt they can.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 September 2015 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 12  

They may be two sources for "Shakespeare" as a name for the author, if we consider DeVere as the most likely candidate.

• DeVere was called the "Spear-shaker", partly in reference to the crest on the Oxford coat of arms, a lion brandishing (shaking) a spear. Perhaps he, or someone else in the know, chose the name based on this.

• Or, perhaps, when the Works proved popular and a "brand" was needed to identify them, the Stratford man either claimed authorship, or was chosen as a front man. Who chose him? My guess would be Ben Jonson, but it's only a guess. (Based on Jonson's fingerprints being all over the Question!)

Some credence if given to the Stratford man claiming authorship, I think, by the fact that the first appearance of the byline spelled the name Shake-speare. That gave it not only a different pronunciation from the name of the man from Stratford (which was pronounce Shax-sper, based on the phonetic spelling in dozens of documents), but also may have been using an Elizabethan theatrical ploy, spelling a fake name with a hyphen followed by a lower case letter. Such spelling was not uncommon in general usage, it just takes on special meaning in context. The printer may have been sending a signal to literate theater-goers.

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