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Topic: OT: Candidates For Shakespeare Authorship (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 5:48am | IP Logged | 1  

Michael, that last sentence might need a bit of clarification.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 6:18am | IP Logged | 2  

For example, the First Folio tells us that a huge portion of the Shakespeare plays would be unknown without its publication. The First Folio tells us the publication of the plays that did make it out previously had been decidedly messy, unsystematic, with hardly the evidence of caring in the least for their content or quality. The First Folio does not tell us anything about how, when, where, why the work of Shakespeare was written, and neither does it tell us much about its own publication. The First Folio does not tell us how, when, where, and why it included these particular works, some we now think are Shakespeare, some not, some we now think are "bad" versions, and why some lost works or some so-called apocrypha are not included.

One doesn't need to be a Doubter to acknowledge all this. But it hardly fails to fit with being a Doubter either. The argument then is whether it fits being a Doubter better than supporting Stratfordian authorship.


Edited by Michael Penn on 13 September 2015 at 6:20am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 3  

Shakespeare -- whoever he was -- apparently took no interest in the publication of his work during his lifetime (whenever that was). All printings of the works are riddled with errors, which one would hope an author would take steps to avoid, were he able. Ben Jonson, for instance, oversaw the publications of much of his work.

Why Stratford Will, if he was the Author, was so careless in this matter is a question that remains unanswered. If, on the other hand, the Author was DeVere, then the answer is self-evident: as a peer of the realm, he could not participate in a commercial venture such as the publication of his plays.

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Sabrina Feldman
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 4  

Hi Eric, you're right that Shakespeare scholars devised the “memorial reconstruction” theory more than a century ago to explain the existence of the six or so 'bad quartos.' According to this theory, actors who performed in some of Shakespeare’s plays decided to reconstruct them from memory, then print them for reasons that remain obscure. Memorial reconstruction provides a useful escape hatch from thorny authorship attribution problems, but there is actually no evidence that any of the bad quartos were written this way.

In an influential scholarly paper, printed in 1990, Paul Werstine states that the memorial reconstruction theory has “yet to be empirically validated with reference to any extant Shakespeare quarto.” Furthermore, “there is no documentary evidence that any actor ever memorially reconstructed a play.” As the bad quartos have come under increasing scrutiny in recent years, and as the holes in the memorial reconstruction theory have become increasingly apparent, the latest trend in Shakespearean scholarship is to view the bad quartos as legitimate performance texts of Shakespeare’s canonical plays.

The elephant in the room is the question of who, exactly,
is supposed to have generated the ‘bad’ quarto texts from the ‘good’ quarto texts if not William Shakespeare, the resident company playwright, himself. Why would William have handed the good quartos over to his play company just to let some other person or persons unknown aggressively cut down his texts, butchering his favorite lines and philosophical digressions in the process? And if William revised his own 'good' texts, why didn’t he just write the shorter and more performable bad texts to begin with and save himself the trouble? If William did adapt the good quartos, and if he was really Shakespeare, why did he introduce so many mistakes, passages that don’t make sense without reference to the good quartos, and inconsistencies with time references that argue against the Bard’s direct involvement in their adaptations?
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 5  

Just about everything surrounding who the author(s) we attribute the works of Shakespeare to is speculation and theory. Seeking empirical evidence is the path of madness. We are all examining what information we have, making speculations based on what seems logical and leaning one direction or another. What we have in total for the canon could not have come from a single hand in my opinion. A modern performance is very much a living thing and that is in an environment of reverence, usually seeking to remain true to the text. But cuts are made, lines changed, scenes rearranged, etc. The company has a starting point, the script, and away we go.

IMHO, It is not far fetched to imagine a beginning text from someone that changed during rehearsal, during performances and over the years. What eventually was published is what we have now and little to think the original author had a hand in all publications. I think Shakespeare has many minor contributions from many other people. The fact we have different versions of some plays is evidence enough for me. However, I am most comfortable attributing De Vere as the person who set in motion the pen to paper that is the basis of all these text. Performance, collaboration (welcomed or not), the printing process and maybe even subtle changes in the language itself have influenced what was printed for all to read. Those differences will always be speculation and each to their own.
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 15 September 2015 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 6  

So am I correct in saying that the main argument for Shakespeare of Stratford-upon-Avon being "the guy" is that his name is written on the title page and that is all they have?

This almost seems like a case of "Alan Smithee" as used by directors who don't want their name associated with a directing job. Not in that exact same manner but in the same vein..... A safe pseudonym to use...
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 September 2015 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 7  

So am I correct in saying that the main argument for Shakespeare of Stratford-upon-Avon being "the guy" is that his name is written on the title page and that is all they have?

••

Perhaps a bit of an oversimplification, but not by much!

Factor in, too, that the Stratford Man's name ISN'T on any of the publications, at least not how he most commonly spelled it*, and that the first time the name Shakespeare was used in connection with the Work, it was spelled Shake-speare.

Not a big deal in and of itself, until we remember that a hyphen followed by a lowercase letter was often used in Elizabethan theater to indicate a made-up name.

So, to a literate Elizabethan audience, "Shake-speare" would not sound like the name of the man from Stratford, and indications would have been right there on the page that it was a non-de-plume. Points lost in the gulf of years since the Work was created.

____________

* Some have suggested that Shaksper, becoming a successful businessman in Stratford, wanted to distance himself from his unsavory hobby of writing plays, and so created the "Shakespeare" name as his "brand". This sounds to me a whole lot like Obi-Wan Kenobi brilliantly disguising himself with the name Ben Kenobi.

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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 15 September 2015 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 8  

Chris "Luke" Griffin: "She said "Obi-Wan Kenobi".

"I wonder if she means old Obi- Wan Kenobi?"
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 15 September 2015 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 9  

In 1593 on the dedication page for Venus and Adonis we get "William Shakespeare" instead of a hyphenated "Shake-speare". I don't know for certain if this is the first printed version of the name or not. However, in trying to find out I stumbled on this blog that has some fun authorship info: Hank Whittemore's Shakespeare Blog
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 September 2015 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 10  

Was reading "The Mammoth Book Of Conspiracies" tonight (some seem real, others seem absurd, i.e. David Icke's theories). There was a section on Shakespeare.

Two things that were interesting:

The 76th sonnet has this line: That every word doth almost tell my name. Apparently, "every word" is almost an anagram of De Vere. I confess, that does seem like clutching at straws, almost akin to those who say that Lewis Carroll confessing to being Jack the Ripper can be found in one of his books!

The second thing was the mention that Shakespeare left no books in his will. Not one. That does strike me as odd.

All this evidence, certainly all that I have read, works against the man from Stratford being the author. As I have told many recently, I'm not basing it on one or two things (certainly not the 7th sonnet line alone!), but an accumulation of things.

I'm gravitating more towards De Vere as I type this, but Francis Bacon is sort of in my head, too.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 September 2015 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 11  

The most important element, I feel, in the case for DeVere is that no conspiracy is required.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 September 2015 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 12  

That is true, sir. It just fits. Yes, I may have a bit of a "bee in my bonnet" about Bacon (call it an obsession!), but I like to think that this reading I have done is akin go a jigsaw puzzle: I just feel all the DeVere "pieces" fit. Something very logical about the whole thing when you put all the "pieces" together (or, to give credit to others, pieces they have put together).

Just a shame it can't be proven. But what can, really? No jury is ever placed in a time machine and taken back to a murder scene - but they have listened to all the evidence and many, I'm sure, have come to a "guilty" verdict on good faith - and one which is no doubt fair.

None of us are about to build that time machine and witness DeVere writing the plays, but I'm as close to convinced that he was the one!
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