| Author |
|
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3018
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
When I lived in Seattle a few years ago I was treated to a daily spectacle of the mayor riding his bike to work followed by an SUV containing his security detail. When I objected not so much to the SUV as the security detail itself, which was and is a self-aggrandizing extravagance for a medium profile elected official of a medium profile target, people would admonish me, "How many politicians are you willing to sacrifice?" And I would reply, "ALL OF THEM."
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7497
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
It seems like a matter of degree. If the terrorists win whichever way we go, then we honor our founding principles by not giving in to fear. That would mean not turning away refugees or closing our borders.
It's true that it is possible for terrorists to do terrible things. But that doesn't have to change who we are as a nation. There's a range of options and shouldn't be viewed as all or nothing, because those absolutes don't really exist. If we sent back refugees, we're condemning some to death; if we deny visas to qualified visitors, we're telling the world that America is not the place to come to learn, to work or to build a life.
It is a VERY hard question and I don't envy those who have to grapple with it. But I don't want to see us give up all the things that we celebrate as special about America in the process of figuring it out...and that is all too easy when decisions are made to address an immediate panic.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4549
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
JB wrote:
| I am presently undecided on this matter, but I feel I must dispute this blanket statement. If nothing else, barring refugees would at least reduce the scale of the problem. |
|
|
A terrorist with a fake passport wouldn't be entering the US as a refugee, though. So laws affecting the admission of refugees would not have any direct effect on his success in getting into the country. Unless the premise is that if we were not admitting any refugees, there would be more resources and personnel available to screen everyone else who enters the country? It seems like we might be better served by directly addressing the problem, perhaps by modifying or eliminating the Visa Waiver Program and tightening scrutiny of people entering the country via conventional means.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4549
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
James Reese wrote:
| Up until know I would agree with you. So far, it seems that we have let in a total of 2,000 refugees at a rate of 250-500 per year. So, in the next 2 years why has a quota of 110,000 been implemented? |
|
|
I assume the desire to increase the amount of refugees admitted is based on the vastly increased need over the past few months, due to the worsening conflict. But I agree that it seems unwise to step up the frequency unless it's clear that the present level of screening can be maintained.
Ultimately though I think the focus on refugees is misguided. There are much quicker and easier ways for terrorists to get into this country. Posing as a refugee is probably the most difficult and least effective way to do it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1896
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
"There are much quicker and easier ways for terrorists to get into this country. Posing as a refugee is probably the most difficult and least effective way to do it."
*********
Jason, please help yourself to something from the prize jar. This is the smartest observation I have heard all day.
If you pose as a refugee, you will be interviewed, finger printed, and subjected to facial recognition software, which is precisely the sort of attention a terrorist would never want. If you pose as a refugee, you have no idea which country will end up accepting you, if any. So there you are, itching to fight a jihad, and you're stuck in a tent city with thousands of refugees waiting for processing. "There's gotta be a better way."
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11257
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
You get facial recognition and fingerprinted as a tourist, never mind a refugee.
Edited by Bill Collins on 20 November 2015 at 3:02pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Gilbert Roland
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 June 2008
Posts: 124
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
"There are much quicker and easier ways for terrorists to get into this country. Posing as a refugee is probably the most difficult and least effective way to do it."
----------------------------------------
With that said, difficult does not mean impossible. Especially considering that these people are prepared to die for their beliefs and cause.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3557
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Is it possible that in 50 to 60 years from now, someone will ask the question "If you had a time machine would you go back and kill Donald Trump?"
Rounding up and deporting Mexicans...
Registering and tagging Muslims.....
Shit is way past scary right now.
And the scariest part is that not enough people are scared for the right reasons.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15844
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
"There are much quicker and easier ways for terrorists to get into this country. Posing as a refugee is probably the most difficult and least effective way to do it."
----------------------------------------
With that said, difficult does not mean impossible. Especially considering that these people are prepared to die for their beliefs and cause.-------------------------------------------------- And all things being equal, people will not choose the most difficult path.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15844
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Is it possible that in 50 to 60 years from now, someone will ask the question "If you had a time machine would you go back and kill Donald Trump?"
Rounding up and deporting Mexicans...
Registering and tagging Muslims.....
Shit is way past scary right now.
And the scariest part is that not enough people are scared for the right reasons. --------------------------------------------- Loathe as I am to make the Hitler comparison, it's difficult to avoid it. He was also considered a flash in the pan idiot who would quickly disappear.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4549
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Gilbert Roland wrote:
| With that said, difficult does not mean impossible. |
|
|
True. But why is there so much focus right now on the most difficult and least likely way terrorists might enter the country? It's far more likely that radicalized European nationals might come here and commit terrorist acts, so why aren't we discussing a ban on all Europeans entering the country, for example? Or completely closing our boarders to foreign nationals? What makes sweeping, overkill ideas like those unacceptable, while a sweeping ban on all refugees is considered viable?
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 20 November 2015 at 5:18pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15844
|
| Posted: 20 November 2015 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
But why is there so much focus right now on the most difficult and least likely way terrorists might enter the country? ------------------------------ 'Cos it's the easiest to implement, with no noticeable cost and the biggest gain in political capital. And because people are scared and knee-jerk reactions go hand-in-hand with fear.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
