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Roy Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1323
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| Posted: 07 February 2016 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 1
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It's like they've been reading the forum:
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132278
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| Posted: 07 February 2016 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's like they've been reading the forum...••• All the threads that aren't about Superman?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15794
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| Posted: 07 February 2016 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 3
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I thought it was a decent article. That said, you don't have to be the most perceptive person to realise DC don't know how to handle Superman.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3826
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 4
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They most certainly don't, and haven't for a long time. I think Superman is an incredibly easy character to "get", which is why his appeal was so strong for so many years.
I blame constant reboots and retcons, all of them blatantly unnecessary. Even MAN OF STEEL, to a degree. At least JB treated the character with respect and he was easily recognisable after. But it seems its success has inspired other creators into thinking that reboots are a good thing.
Most of all, though, I blame Jim Lee and the PTB at DC these days.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 5
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I blame constant reboots and retcons, all of them blatantly unnecessary. Even MAN OF STEEL, to a degree. •• MAN OF STEEL was totally unnecessary. When I accepted the assignment, I expected to spend six months or a year doing stories that would guide Superman back to where I thought he should be. It was the Powers That Were at DC that insisted on a "reboot." (As I have said before, I am convinced that happened because the editorial staff had all gotten brand new Macintosh computers, and computer lingo was on everybody's lips. If the project had happened a year earlier, no one would have thought to say "reboot.")
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Marc Foxx
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5571
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 6
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One thing I appreciated in the article that the guy got
right was using the term "trunks".
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Bryan White
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Joined: 01 February 2005
Posts: 460
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 7
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JB, is there any comic or character, so flawed, that a good creator couldn't fix in 6 months to a year to get back on the right track?
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Jason Larouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 515
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 8
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MAN OF STEEL was totally unnecessary. When I accepted the assignment, I expected to spend six months or a year doing stories that would guide Superman back to where I thought he should be. It was the Powers That Were at DC that insisted on a "reboot." (As I have said before, I am convinced that happened because the editorial staff had all gotten brand new Macintosh computers, and computer lingo was on everybody's lips. If the project had happened a year earlier, no one would have thought to say "reboot.") ****
It's funny, I re-read COIE the other day and there's absolutely zero indication that Superman at the end of that story had changed. They obviously weren't intending a reboot at that point even though that was supposed to be the reason for all of the DC continuity changes.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 9
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It's funny, I re-read COIE the other day and there's absolutely zero indication that Superman at the end of that story had changed. They obviously weren't intending a reboot at that point even though that was supposed to be the reason for all of the DC continuity changes. •• As I have mentioned on many an occasion, at a convention in Atlanta, at dinner with Frank Miller and his girlfriend, Dick Giordano offered me what would become CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. At that point it was seen as a history of the DCU. which would end by "blowing everything up" and beginning the next month with all new first issues. Frank cautioned me against taking on such a project, and I assured him there was no way I would even consider it. But what can be gleaned from this is that CRISIS began as something quite different, and underwent a series of "mutations" en route to the consumers. Problem is, it was still in flux when it was published. No one had really thought beyond CRISIS, just as they did not think beyond MAN OF STEEL. Indeed, you are right. There was no reboot of Superman planned when CRISIS was initiated.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 10
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JB, is there any comic or character, so flawed, that a good creator couldn't fix in 6 months to a year to get back on the right track?•• Probably not. Some characters are "born" bad, so there is really no way to take them "back" to the right track, but one could at least take them forward.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 11
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is there any comic or character, so flawed, that a good creator couldn't fix in 6 months to a year to get back on the right track?
The Punisher went from popular Spider-Man villain to anti-hero to superstar to established superhero with three or four monthly books in a really short period of time, and overexposure (among other things) led to all of those books getting canceled. A few half-hearted relaunches led to them literally killing off the character and resurrecting him as an angel-powered hunter of demons. Garth Ennis wrote the next relaunch, and pretty much undid that status quo with two captions, which set the tone for the character for the next fifteen years.
So yeah, the right creative team can definitely come in and remind everyone what made a character work in the first place. Like Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams on Batman, Roger Stern and John Romita Jr. on Spider-Man, Walt Simonson on Thor, John Byrne on Fantastic Four. A lot of the most fondly-remembered runs in comics are the result of a creator re-focusing the character after a long aimless period.
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Jeffrey Rice
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Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1161
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| Posted: 08 February 2016 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | 12
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I remember when DC created the Tim Drake Robin. He was so popular that multiple mini-series and and an ongoing were top sellers. But all of those stories could have been about Jason Todd with minor changes. Except he was killed off as a "bad character".
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Topic Closed)
