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Victor Perez
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Posted: 24 November 2017 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Hello everyone. Hey, I invested the time to read every single post in this thread before commenting, and I just thought I would introduce myself and establish some bona fides before commenting as well, hope you don’t mind.


So, a quick introduction. My first JB comic was Space:1999 #6 purchased on Inverness St. in Camden High St. in 1976.  I’ve read and own pretty much everything JB has done since then, including all of his Star Trek work, which I love.  


Why do I like Star Trek so much? For all the reasons you all do, but... my parents tell me that my first words stung together in a phrase were “where no man gone before!”  So wow did I get started early—in another continent and years before that issue of Space:1999. :)


In fact, as a meager installment on paying back my dad for gifting me with a life-long love of comics, sci-fi, and Star Trek, I bought him (and had professionally framed) some original JB cover art–via the wonderful Jim Warden—back when I could barely afford such things (as apposed to now when I can’t afford them at all, haha).


I would note that my best friend of 35 years is also a fan. We both owned (and still do) copies of the original Star Trek technical manual, but dammit he owned the Concordance and the giant fold-out blueprints that included some of those somewhat naughty, bigger-than-Constitution class starships that we wished as kids we could see in action.


A few years ago my dad pointed out to me (with regard to recent and then-upcoming Star Trek movies) that he missed the “optimistic” future that Star Trek presented on television in all of its eras. My best friend and I agreed. I may not be expressing that concept eloquently, but we all know what I am talking about. 


Now neither my dad nor my best friend follow the media news like I do, but I kept them both posted on the productions ins and outs (and seemingly mostly outs) of the run-up to the debut of STD.  And sure enough, I saw the first episode of the pilot and was kinda disappointed.  I saw part two and it was enough to get me to see the third episode. You know what?


Turns out Star Trek Discovery is fun as hell and both my dad and my best friend and I can’t wait to see what happens next. :) Do I quibble with some things? Based on everything I have shared with you above, you know I do! But I do wish all of you were having the same fun that we are.




Edited by Victor Perez on 24 November 2017 at 11:15am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 27 November 2017 at 1:04am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The gents at TWO TRUE FREAKS just released a very interesting, two-plus-hours discussion on STD and the state of the STAR TREK franchise:

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

So, they're back.  My take still stands.  If the sets and costuming matched up with Pike's Enterprise, I would really like this show.  But the fact that in this episode they showed the Defiant that went into the Mirror Universe...and it looked exactly like the TOS Constitution class Defiant, and the characters on the Discovery identified it immediately as a Constitution class vessel, is breaking my brain.  
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

So, fanwank that rubs salt in the wounds. Good idea.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Agree it was quite a mind bender!
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Disagree with the “fanwank” comment.  There is enough to think about here to make it interesting, from the “why” to the “what happens next.” That’s what makes it pleasurable. 

Edited by Victor Perez on 07 January 2018 at 10:55pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 07 January 2018 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

This show gets increasingly better and the latest episode had much to admire. The doctor's reasoning -- bone crunching somehow explaining how they had missed engrams -- didn't quite add up, but pretty much evrything else in this episode worked for me.

Particularly enjoyed the sequence when Tilly first played the part of Captain with Lorca egging her on silently.
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Still enjoying it a lot! It helps that I love Tilly.

Hoping to see a lot more Andorians and Tellarites as we go forward. Curious to see how this turns out. Is the ISS Discovery having adventures in "our" universe?
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 11:04am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I liked how Lorca used a Scottish accent for the
engineer.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

RedLetterMedia's mid-season review:

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Peter Martin
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I liked how Lorca used a Scottish accent for the 
engineer.
------------------------
Yes, that bit tickled me as well. Jason Isaacs has quite the facility with accents.
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply


Heh, Red Letter media had a suggestion at the end that STD takes place in the Mirror universe, which is why it's so dark and everyone's an a-hole.  It still wouldn't salvage the show by any means, but it would be the one twist that would leave the door open for me to watch any more of it. 
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I rewatched the existing episodes in the run up to watching episode 10, it's actually not as bad as my first impression viewing.   I think the trick is watching this as a show on it's own merits and not as STAR TREK.  Ditto for ENTERPRISE.

This week's episode actually was fun to watch and there was some real STAR TREK-ish vibes starting to poke through.

Notes:

*I think it's kind of humorous and ironic that the largest STAR TREK continuity nod DISCOVERY has done so far is towards ENTERPRISE.

*They confirm that Discovery's home universe is the Prime Universe -- Quantum signatures don't lie, do they?   (Unless of course ENTERPRISE also takes place in yet another alternate reality)

*Interesting that they show the Prime Universe design for the Constitution class Defiant.   This might actually be important, later.  

*They mention the possibility of exiting the MU through the rift that brought the Defiant to the MU.   Considering how the rift warps time I don't think Discovery is going to actually get home, and I still think they may eventually end up erasing their entire existence -- possibly negating the Kelvin timeline and resetting things back to the original Prime TOS timeline in the process. 

*I have a feeling altered-Klingon-Tyler is going to end up meeting both the real Tyler (or at least his MU equivalent) and the MU Voq.  Fun times. 

*While it's kind of hard to recover from a snapped neck I think some time travel shenanigans will push the big old reset button on this.  They've already cannon-foddered two of the main cast as gimmicks and doing it too many times actually has the opposite effect in the long run.


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Victor Perez
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Posted: 08 January 2018 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Rob, agree with all of your notes. Well done. And that's why this show is fun--or why I am lucky enough to have the brain damage necessary to consider it fun:

*The continuity nod was both toward Enterprise and by extension, TOS. If that was fanwank, then every episode of Trek after TOS ended was fanwank, sorry.

*And yes, it had a purpose--confirming we jumped from the Prime Universe. Cool. Unless unless unless...

*Constitution class Defiant: Pretty sure Discovery mentioned Constitution class ships earlier in the season. Could be wrong. Design looked a little different, yes.

*Time travel on the way back--hadn't thought of that--maybe thats how this arc ends? Kelvin reset would be too good to be true. (oops did I say that out loud?)

*One comment on Tyler: unless I missed it, he was conspicuously missing from the "we looked up our counterparts" bits...if they found him, it would be interesting confirmation that Tyler's identity was a real person and not a made-up, inserted plant.

*After Trek (can barely watch it but this Discovery episode was just so interesting I watched it) basically confirmed we haven't seen the last of the doctor--and that there will be no mirror Doctor--and that the Doctor is dead. So...hmmm.

*Will add just one note of my own: Lorca seems waaay too comfortable in this universe. Pretty confidently orders the makeover and pretty definitively tells Michael and Tyler what will get them killed and what won't.

*And one big question is...who is the "faceless" Emperor?


Edited by Victor Perez on 08 January 2018 at 10:27pm
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Luke Styer
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

 Victor Perez wrote:
*Will add just one note of my own: Lorca seems waaay too comfortable in this universe. Pretty confidently orders the makeover and pretty definitively tells Michael and Tyler what will get them killed and what won't.

My theory is that the Lorca of the series is the MU counterpart to the Prime Lorca who died when he lost his ship. It would answer several "mysteries" about the character. Off the top of my head:
  • How did Lorca, alone survive the destruction of his old ship? He didn't, he got replaced by his MU counterpart.
  • Why did Lorca go and spring Michael Burnham from prison? Because he needed her to replace the MU Burnham for the op they are currently running in the MU.
  • Why did Admiral Cornwall think Lorca seemed like a different man than her old friend and lover? Because he is.
  • Why did Lorca override Stametz's coordinates on the final Spore jump? Because he needed to go home to MU to pull off the current op.

And, as you say, Victor, why is Lorca so comfortable in the MU? Because it's his home.

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I have a feeling we already know who the 'faceless' Emperor of the Earth Empire is.

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Victor Perez
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

 Luke Styer wrote:
My theory is that the Lorca of the series is the MU counterpart to the Prime Lorca who died when he lost his ship. It would answer several "mysteries" about the character.


Love it. They did make a point of showing Lorca inputting the coordinates. The markings on his back that Cornwall saw certainly seemed more like something to come from the mirror universe.

So the Emperor is...



Edited by Victor Perez on 09 January 2018 at 7:11pm
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

So the Emperor is...

Not Lorca, IMO

One thing I took notice of...  Burnham was captain of the MU Shenzhou.  So where is captain Georgiou?   Stabbed in the back by Burnham, or perhaps indisposed elsewhere?

My bet is Georgiou is the EA Emperor.

(or it's an aged Hosi Sato) :-)
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 09 January 2018 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Re: My bet is Georgiou

Oh that would be wild... and track with early talk about her still being filming... and with why it was (a much-trusted) Mirror Michael who was sent after Lorca...  wow.  As for Sato—ha. I just watched those Enterprise episodes for the first time last night. Enjoyed them most of all for their “we are not even going to bother with the Prime universe” chutzpah. Back in the day, I gave up on Enterprise before that season—and I am so easily amused I almost don’t give up on anything! That’s why I gave Discovery a chance and I am glad I did. 
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 10 January 2018 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

The other really interesting aspect to this is they postulate the MU Discovery went to the Prime Universe!

Considering the ethically-challenged nature of the PU Discovery's spore drive you have to wonder what kind of war toys the MU counterpart will have...

It might just be that the MU Discovery starts shooting at anything and everything and gets themselves destroyed, leaving "Discovery" and her crew a forgotten historical footnote in the Earth-Klingon war.   They'll probably just conveniently blame Michael for another mutiny too. :-)
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 16 January 2018 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Finally got a chance to watch the current episode tonight.

Wow.

These Mirror Universe episodes have been fantastic.   Well plotted, tense, and a sense of real peril for our characters.   Everything DISCOVERY had been lacking up until now, IMO.   

Notes: 

<SPOILERS!>

*Well, the fan theories have come home to roost.   Tyler meets his MU counterpart -- and it's Voq!  Or at least he thinks and believes he's Voq.-- he's definitely got Voq's memories.  It still begs the question, who (and where) is the real Tyler?  Tyler's physical look, history and personality had to come from somewhere.

*Some clever name play going on here.   PU Voq was known as the "Torchbearer".  MU Voq is the "Fire Bird".  Tyler's name is "Ash" -- i.e. remnants of fire.  The name "Tyler" is Old English for "doorkeeper", and Mr Tyler's real persona hides behind many doors, some of which are being slowly opened.

*I think MU Saru knows more than he's letting on, perhaps not on a conscious level though.  Michael referring to him by his Kelpian name surely must have triggered his neck bristles.  Even the act of speaking to him face to face may have been enough for Michael's cover to be blown.   I have a feeling Michael is going to try and 'save' MU Saru when they cross back to the PU.  (after all, Doug Jones is a fantastic actor, both in physical and verbal performance  -- 2x the amount of that is too much to resist!)

*MU Sarek will surely try to contact Michael to clarify his mind meld vision.   It appears that regardless of universe, both Sarek and Spock are sometimes at philosophical odds.   Remember, at this time MU Spock would be serving in the Terran Starfleet.   So, it's interesting that Spock later becomes the instigator for change in the Terran Empire (at least according to the MU history outlined in DS9).

*It looks like there are no longer two Stamets -- I think both the PU and MU minds are now sharing one body, which likely happened when the Discovery crossed over.   Why do I think Stamets is going to 'God out' on the Discovery and leave to explore the universe?  (Shades of Decker/Ilia).

*How the heck is the existence of the MU going to be kept a secret when the Discovery returns?  (This may be a indicator that Discovery never gets back, or returns to the PU at a different point in the timeline.  Wouldn't it be a rush if Discovery ends up in the future, post-TNG and can't get back?)

*Something I forgot to mention about episode 10 -- they refer to the Terran Empire as 'racist' but it's clear they are talking about specism, specifically interspecies racism versus intraspecies racism.

*Sylvia Tilly?   I hope her academy nickname wasn't "Silly Tilly". :-)

*Well, my hunch was right about the identity of the Emperor -- but I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Emperor is also descended from Sato family.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 16 January 2018 at 8:30pm
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 16 January 2018 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Agree-- last two episodes were really something, as fun or more fun than anything since the best TNG. Spoiler-ish speculation:

<SPOILERS!>

*Thinking again now about Lorca, who seems really chill with everything... the torture, the big reveal (except to Rob!) at the end... if it turns out that he is from the MU originally, did he cross over to the PU intentionally or by accident? If intentionally was it simply to escape, or was it to get Michael.

*Agree MU Saru must have a clue something is off about Michael

*Tyler: he could still be a keeper for the show, but that would be a stretch

*"For the show"--what exactly IS this show anyway? Hard to imagine a season 2. Maybe it WILL be an anthology.

*I understand this was hinted at in After Trek, which I still find difficult to watch, but: will we get an episode with the MU Discovery in the PU?  And is there a Stamets on it?  

*And when you say Stamets will 'God out' I was thinking the same but more along the lines of...Gary Mitchell.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 17 January 2018 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Saru probably instantly knew that it wasn't really his Michael.  His universe's Michael is a predator, the Prime universe Michael isn't.  So precisely the fact that he didn't instinctively bristle in her presence would have tipped him off immediately.  And I'm guessing that that knowledge, even if he doesn't know precisely what is going on, is why he chose to save her.  
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 21 January 2018 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

I just can't stop loving this weird show.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 21 January 2018 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Re: I just can’t stop.....

Agreed 1000%.  Maybe it’s like jumping in the lake when you know it’s going to be cold at first—but I promise all the skeptics out there it is worth the plunge. (And if it’s any extra consolation—there are plenty of plot devices and holes and ‘identity politics’ that you can still grumble about, but at least you will be having fun!). 


Edited by Victor Perez on 21 January 2018 at 10:37pm
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