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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 1  

 Kevin Pierce wrote:
Tell you what, let me swing a sledge at you and you see if you're right.

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Sure as heck wouldn't sit there and try to catch it, I'd move

'Twas a joke, son.  I say a joke.
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Kevin Pierce
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 2  

To this I simply say: he's freakin' SUPERMAN, for cryin' out loud. He's not
some Average Joe in a bar fight...he's the greatest super-hero ever. It was
an amazingly dramatic moment. Both heroes were battered and
exhausted and Superman pulled a little bit more out at that moment,
surprised Thor and won the fight.

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He was the 1st hero that has a lot to do with his greatness. If Captain Marvel came out before him, would everyone think he was the greatest hero ever?


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Kevin Pierce
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 3  

'Twas a joke, son.  I say a joke.

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SON" are you my daddy; can I have my back allowance now?
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James C. Taylor
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 4  

 Kevin Pierce wrote:
'Twas a joke, son.  I say a joke.

***********************************
SON" are you my daddy; can I have my back allowance now?

Kids these days don't know a Foghorn Leghorn reference when they read one.  Fortunately I keep my responses numbered for just such an emergency.
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Kevin Pierce
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 5  

Haven't seen that show in a long time, cause I am a Chicken Hawk!


Great I can see it now, someone is going to start arguing who can beat who
Foghorn Leghorn or baby huey


Edited by Kevin Pierce on 23 March 2005 at 11:26am
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Kevin Stamper
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 6  

 Kevin Pierce wrote:
A sledge is not easy to wield and could be caught / stopped with a little fortune.  Sounds like the way Kurt wrote it to me.

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It's got be a heck of allot of  fortune to catch a sledge hammer in full swing with out injurying yourself.

 

One other factor that seems forgotten in this context is Superman's speed, which definitely eclipses Thor's.  Superman, as one of the three or four fastest entities in all creation, would be able to see the hammer coming, thus having a moment to stop it.  If Arnold Schwartzenegger were a heck of a lot faster than Lou Ferrigno, who was swinging said hammer, his ability to catch/stop a swing would definitely be enhanced.  (Incidentally, I agree with this analogy of JBs, as well as the premise that Superman is no MORE succeptible to magic than anyone else).

Granted, this is a magical sledge hammer in the story, but that would not increase the speed of the swing, and all Superman would have to do is stop/deflect the blow from the hammer before administering the coup de gras to Thor.  Hence, the fight ends as it should, with a bloodied, beaten Superman, who clearly sustained damage, coming out JUST on top of the Asgardian.

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Jeff Stockwell
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 7  

 James C. Taylor wrote:
Fortunately I keep my responses numbered for
just such an emergency.


Bravo, sir. BRA-vo.
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Kevin Pierce
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 8  

Granted, this is a magical sledge hammer in the story, but that would not increase the speed of the swing, and all Superman would have to do is stop/deflect the blow from the hammer before administering the coup de gras to Thor.  Hence, the fight ends as it should, with a bloodied, beaten Superman, who clearly sustained damage, coming out JUST on top of the Asgardian.

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But how many times out of Best of Five
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Marc Woolman
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 9  

What still has to be addressed is the the idea established in various comics that Mjolnir does indeed hit with a mystical force all of its own.

Thor's hammer is a magical weapon. Not only is it a weapon, it is a striking weapon meant to do serious injury when used. Superman does lose his powers to a degree when it comes to magic.

If a magic flame blasts Superman he'll burn,  a magic spell is cast preventing all capable beings from flying then Superman walks, "a magic mirror that tells what's true" reveals Superman to be Clark Kent when he stands in front of it. (That pesky Lois! )

Examples:

(1) Throwing Dr. Fate's helmut at Superman would not hurt Superman. The magical purpose of the helmut is not to be a striking weapon, however as a full face helmut which first and foremost is to hide/protect the face/identity of the wearer, Superman's  X-ray vision probably coudn't penetrate it if he wanted to see who was wearing the helmut.

(2) A magical bullet would penetrate or kill Superman because it's primary function is to do what a bullet does, and the magic enables it to work on things it normally wouldn't.

(3) A magical battle hammer that has it's own mystical force of impact would eliminate Superman's invulnerability and put him down.

Superman in the case of a magic dart would not lose ALL of his powers, he could still fly  use hit heat vision etc, but his invulnerability to the dart would be overcome by the magic.

There have been stories which suggested that one of the reasons Superman usually loses in battle to Captain Marvel is because he feels the impacts of Cap's blows and is hurt to a greater degree because Cap's strength is completely magical, where as if Superman were on the receiving end of a punch from The Martian Manhunter it would still hurt because of the roughly equal strength but Superman's invulnerability would offer more protection against a punch from the Martian Manhunter because his strength is not magical.

As for the Hulk's madder = stronger "cliche", that is no more a cliche then Wonder Woman's definition as being stronger then Hercules, or the Juggernaut's description as unstoppable. It is the Hulk's actual description/definition and has been throughout the majority of his comic's publication. He has no upper limit as to how strong he can get, and his rage always increases his strenght.

A Superspeed attack could most likely put the Hulk down, yet Superman never does that against the foes on his strength level, but a straight forward slugfest would lead to a Hulk victory. After all, that pale and uninspired Hulk imatation Doomsday killed Superman already.

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 10  

Kurt Buisek got it right in JLA/Avengers: it took out Superman when he wasn't ready, he stopped it when he was.

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That's not even close to "right". Mjolnir is a magical object. If Superman was "ready" it would be virtually impossible for Thor to hit him (super speed, etc), but if the Odinson happened to connect, we'd be back to two non-magical guys and a sledge hammer again.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 11  

Superman does lose his powers to a degree when it
comes to magic.

*****

That's not phrased quite right. Superman does not "lose his power" to magic -- unless, of course, someone casts a spell specifically intended to rob him of his power -- "Der nus noitadar evael Namrepus!" -- his powers remain as they have always been. Say, for example, somebody shot him at the same moment Mjolnir struck (to continue the Thor context) -- the bullet would bounce off, as usual. It's just that magic, by definition, breaks all the rules.
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Ron Farrell
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Posted: 23 March 2005 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | 12  

JB, just to clarify my position, I don't mean Superman can stand there and let Thor hit him. This was him reacting fast enough and strong enough to grab the hammer head in mid swing and stop it.

 

 

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