Author |
|
Marcio Ferreira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 2518
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Dave Phelps,
You do have a good point. There are many attemps that we don't even hear about. And a police state is not what we want, but this terrorist was investigated twice and a co-worker filed a complaint against him. He continued to work on a security company with access to guns. His father is a supporter of Taleban and even went to Washington to talk with politicians, since he plans to be a presidential candidate in Afghanistan. Two months ago a Muslim religious leader came to Orlando and gave a speach on how gay people should die out of compassion.
I agree that this is all information obtained after the attack, but Islam intolerance is at the core of this sad event. When we hear about gun control before we hear about retaliation to ISIS. Well. I'd say that it is a problem.
Also, I find it annoying is that the same people insisting in blaming guns for what happened are the ones saying that Islam is not to be blamed for the attack.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Once more into the breach...
Marcio Ferreira wrote:
Switzerland is a good (if not the best) model for responsible gun ownership. |
|
|
You are aware that the Swiss require military service for all able bodied men and volunteering women from age 18 to 21, right? I would say this "best model" is so damned good because the people owning the weapons are taught the respect necessary to keep a military weapon. AND let's not forget the Swiss and their stance on conflict neutrality! They do serve in NATO deployments.
If you point at the Swiss for their model of gun ownership please don't overlook what got them there and how it is maintained.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Marcio Ferreira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 2518
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Eric Ladd,
I am well aware of that and, in fact, that is the main reason their model is the best. People own guns, and know how to use them.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30884
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
And the. Government is heavily involved in the sale and regulation of them. The exact same thing you do NOT want to happen in the United States
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Brian Skelley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 231
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
Eric Ladd wrote:
I would say this "best model" is so damned good because the people owning the weapons are taught the respect necessary to keep a military weapon. |
|
|
Not that it pertains to this thread as much a curiosity, Mr. Ladd what about people that have served in the Armed Forces? Should they be allowed to keep and maintain a firearm? They'd have that respect. What about retired LEOs, or even people trained by the Armed Forces? Where is the line drawn?
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Being permitted to own and use a military weapon for the military seems different than owning a military weapon as a civilian. The operational environment on a military base or theatre of war is completely unlike civilian life. I don't think military weapons have a place in civilian societies.
I think ex military personnel will have more basic understanding of weapon safety, storage, use and respect for the power to end a life than someone without military experience. But there are huge differences between how people live and conduct themselves in the military and in the cities and towns of America.
I think the line is drawn between the people willing to undertake and maintain a license to end a life and those not willing. I don't think the hoops one needs to jump through in order to buy, maintain and keep a weapon reflect the power that is granted by a gun. Recently I compared what someone must go through for their pilots license to what someone goes through to own a gun. One is designed to kill and the other is designed to go from point A to B. The killing machine is so much easier to obtain than the flying machine.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
My point about the Swiss is not just the military service. The Swiss have a much different way they conduct themselves as a nation of the world. Can anyone imagine the US as a nation maintaining neutrality during war? The key take away on my statements is that this "best model" is not to forget what got them there and how they maintain it. The Swiss are very far removed culturally from the US. The Swiss don't have guns because they fear their government is going to subject them to slavery or whatever is feared in the US.
Edited for spelling
Edited by Eric Ladd on 13 June 2016 at 8:07pm
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Neil Lindholm Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: China Posts: 4940
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Some interesting comments on Quora.
Do immigrants tend to change their opinion regarding gun ownership after they have lived in America for a while?
I know a couple of my students who were amazed that they would be able to purchase firearms when in Canada. Completely restricted in China, even for the police.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|
Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5624
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
The Swiss do it right in that every gun owner is trained first and the government knows exactly who has guns and can hold them responsible for their guns.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|
Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35722
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Instead of being sane about this, instead of taking a step back and examining the role guns play in this horrific incident, people obfuscate it all with anti-Muslim, Islamaphopic rants and then what do they do? Buy semi-automatic guns (AR-15s like the ones that were used on Sunday morning to commit the worst mass murder in modern American history) at the rate of an astounding 15 per hour at one (just one) local Southern gun shop today. That's not even close to an average day. That was reported tonight on NBC.
One shop.
15 per hour.
How many gun shops in the US?
And some in this thread choose to turn the focus to the Muslim boogyman or the mentally ill instead of the ease of access we, as Americans, can buy guns and ammunition that can slaughter 50 people in the length of time it takes to play a single song as well as put over 50 people in the hospital, some with grave injuries that will require a lifetime to heal if they're lucky.
Absurd. Absolutely, 100% utterly absurd.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Monte Gruhlke Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3303
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
It seems to me that the govt. did the best it could with the tools allowed to them; the shooter was a loud-mouthed buffoon and his speech, though hateful, is part of the free speech he should be able to enjoy. When we lock up people for ranting, that is when tyranny truly begins.
He bought his guns legally with the laws we currently have in place. Sure, we wish some sort of system was in place to immediately red-flag that a man previously investigated by the FBI was buying guns and a lot of ammo, but no such system exists, because gun-right-activists have made damn sure there is minimum communication between agencies. In fact, what background checks we do have have to be deleted soon thereafter — BY LAW.
In their zealous fear that we are always minutes away from the BIG GOVT taking over, and taking all our guns, Congress has watered down and stripped away any laws that would serve as valuable tools for law enforcement agencies to use. Congress has actually written laws that FORBADE any federal agency from looking into gun violence to seek possible remedies under threat of losing funding.
The murders of all those innocent people in the nightclub, just like the innocent children in Newtown, will just get a collective *shrug* again from Congress. Because having a moment of silence after each event costs far, far less than actually having to do something about it.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|
Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14812
|
Posted: 13 June 2016 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
GUN FREE ZONES - How they worked in the Orlando attack? It certainly worked for law abiding citizens, not for the terrorist.
--------
Within two minutes of arriving, the gunman exchanged shots with an armed off-duty police officer working security, along with three other police officers. That did not stop what happened. In a loud, darkened nightclub with possibly inebriated patrons, if multiple people start pulling out guns, how do you identify who is the bad guy and who is trying to stop the bad guy?
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|