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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16428
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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Paul, I missed your post. Whenever this subject has been brought up among other people I have spoken with on the subject, I like to mention that story. It's one of my faves, and as a fan of Reed Richards, I think it's pretty definitive proof of who's smarter, given Stan and Jack told the tale.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 23 June 2016 at 5:58pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132231
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 2
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I remember that scene, too. But nowhere is it described as a test of INTELLIGENCE. It is a test of MENTAL POWER. And what does that mean? Whatever we want it to, I guess. But...If Reed is actually SMARTER than Doom, the FF's victories are diminished. There is not even a whisper of "David and Goliath," which is what lies at the core of the best superhero victories. (Remember, if Captain America holds his own against one Nazi soldier, there's not much reason to be impressed. But if he holds his own against a roomful of Nazi soldiers...)
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 3
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I have to think that Reed is scientifically smarter than Doom, but then Doom's mystic knowledge can give him the upper hand.
My impression now and 40 years ago when I first met them as a kid, Reed seems to be the "smartest one of them all" constantly expanding his knowledge in a multitude of fields, while Doom is really good at making robots.
The Time Machine might change all that though. I forgot--did Doom really invent that or was it revealed at some point that he "acquired" it somehow? If he invented it, why doesn't he make a new one, go back in time, and kill Reed as a baby?
Edited by Eric Jansen on 23 June 2016 at 7:12pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132231
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 4
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...go back in time, and kill Reed as a baby?••• You really think Doom would find that satisfying?
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Ray Brady
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3740
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 5
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Doom not only invented a time machine, he went out of his way to make sure it looked insanely cool when operating. That's hard to beat.
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Bill Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 6
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I always assumed Doom was the more intelligent of the two since he invented the time machine. I mean, he built a time machine!!
Also, his being smarter made him all the more dangerous as an enemy. Like its been mentioned in this thread already, it's Doom's vanity/hubris that is always his downfall. If he had humility, he would be undefeatable!
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Lance Hill
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Joined: 22 April 2005
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| Posted: 23 June 2016 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 7
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My preference is also that Doom is slightly smarter, but undone by his ego.
Generally speaking, the villain should have the upper hand. The odds should be against the hero.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 24 June 2016 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 8
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I wonder about considering another Marvel villain with much the same fatal flaw as Doom (not exactly, but close...)
How about the Mad Thinker? How close does he get to Doom? Or is he even smarter?
Smart villains are important because, as exciting as the Thing vs the Hulk is, it would pale quickly after a few issues. There just aren't enough variations on that theme (and honestly, I think they were most covered in FFs 25 and 26.)
And I think that "who's smarter?" falls into that "who's stronger?" quandry. Thor, Wonder Man, Namor, Sasquatch - whichever is necessary for the story. Same with Reed/Tony/Hank (Pym or McCoy) against their super smart opponents.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24 June 2016 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 9
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My personal list for top 10 smartest in the MCU would be (more or less in order):
Victor von Doom
Reed Richards
Hank Pym
The Leader (Samuel Sterns)
Tony Stark
T'Challa
Bruce Banner
Amadeus Cho
Mad Thinker
MODOK
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Andrew Bitner
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| Posted: 24 June 2016 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 10
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And Doom would have to beat Reed one-on-one, at the top of their game, with no unfair advantage for one or the other. Any other "victory" would be deeply unsatisfying.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 24 June 2016 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 11
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For Doom, any victory that did not include a crushed and humiliated Reed (preferably begging for mercy) simply would not cut it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 24 June 2016 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 12
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Had to look up "Amadeus Cho." Wish I had not done so. Another sad reminder of the degree to which Marvel has become DC. De-uniqued characters, multiple Earths (with the O So Terribly Clever Earth 616 leading the parade).sigh
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Topic Closed)
