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Topic: America’s Waking Nightmare (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 09 July 2016 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 1  

Yet every whitey in America looks back on an idyllic decade …

••

A staggering racist comment.

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Matt Reed
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Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 2:04am | IP Logged | 2  

Nostalgia hits all of us, of every stripe, across the board.  The 50s are no different from the '60s are no different from the '40s are no different from the 1870s.  Some remember them fondly while others do not for a wide variety of reasons from social oppression to just plain shitty bad luck.  Not everyone has the same shared experience.  It's all about context.  Your experience of a particular decade or set of years doesn't override my own simply because they were bad for you and good for me.  Personally, I can understand social unrest within my community without internalizing it and thus dominating my own life.  

Such as it is.  Such as it ever will be.  Today is no different from yesterday, a decade ago or 200 years ago.  It's those that think it will be markedly different that will ultimately drive themselves insane.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 3  

I'm not sure I'm seeing the point of people championing "Black Lives Matter" and saying that "All Lives Matter" misses the point.

Twelve police were assaulted in Dallas this week, and five of them are dead. But they were white, so does it not matter?

To me, it seems that "Black Lives Matter" demands that the focus of attention should be on black lives. And it seems that a lot of people interpret "All Lives Matter" as a way of ignoring the plight that black lives in jeopardy are being ignored.

Why must there be a dichotomy? Why does "All Lives Matter" have to mandate that black lives are less important? A death is a death, and every murder is reprehensible - EVERY one. EVERY MURDER SHOULD BE STOPPED.

So please tell me what I'm missing. I don't want to be one of those contemptible low lifes, but I guess maybe I might be.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 4  

Of course their lives matter. But the point of Black Lives Matter is to protest killings of black people by people who simply shouldn't be shooting at them (i.e. cops).

It's similar to anti-domestic violence groups. It's not like those groups are saying that violence by random strangers is good but they're trying bring awareness to a more specific issue; one that people frequently turn a blind eye to.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 5  

I get the point of Black Lives Matter, since blacks seem to be shot more by police than other races. My problem is that some people start throwing shade at the police and go protesting without either giving a damn about the truth or getting the full story first. One of the recent shootings, they said the victim was unarmed and on the ground. No, he was not unarmed. He was going for a gun in his pocket when he was shot. 

What I hate is that the police don't seem to get talked about for all the good they do, just whenever someone is shot and they try to make it look like a trigger happy cop shot an innocent victim. And most of the time the shooting is justified because only half the story has been told before people protest it.

There are good cops and bad, but the media and uninformed people seem to try and make all police look bad.




Edited by Brian Floyd on 10 July 2016 at 10:18am
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Jeremy Simington
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 6  

What Dave said.  My (inexpert) perception of the Black Lives Matter movement is that BLM is short-hand for "black lives matter as much as any other race, including white lives".  It is about equality, not superiority.  It's also not anti-white or anti-police.  As evidenced by numerous statements in the past few days from people who actually represent BLM, they are anti-violence.  They denounced the killings in Dallas and gave support to the colleagues, friends, and families of the dead officers and actively condemned the shootings and any violent protest.  They may not be pro-police (can you blame them?) but my impression is that they advocate for fair, equal policing, not just anti-police in general.
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Jeremy Simington
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 7  

Note: I edited this because my tone was too flippant and unfair to Brian the first time around. 

BRIAN FLOYD: since blacks seem to be shot more by police than other races.

This is definitely true. In 2015 "although black men represent6 percent of the U.S. population, they made up nearly 40 percent ofthose who were killed while unarmed."

BRIAN FLOYD: No, he was not unarmed. He was going for a gun in his pocket when he was shot. 

Are you referring to Alton Sterling? If not, which incident are you referring to?  

I don't want to attack Brian without knowing what he meant, so here's my response to anyone who says Sterling was going for a gun.  Yes, he was definitely armed based on objective evidence at the scene (i.e., the gun on his person). However, how could anyone other than the FBI, who just started the investigation, know whether he was going for a gun or not?

BRIAN FLOYD: the media and uninformed people seem to try and make all police look bad.

Unfortunately some, not all (but enough) of the police are doing a good job of that themselves. See: murder of Philando Castile.


Edited by Jeremy Simington on 10 July 2016 at 11:21am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 8  

Why must there be a dichotomy? Why does "All Lives Matter" have to
mandate that black lives are less important? A death is a death, and
every murder is reprehensible - EVERY one. EVERY MURDER
SHOULD BE STOPPED.

------

If there were a protest trying to call attention to violence against women
and the epidemic of rape across campuses, would you be out there
saying, "Men can be the victims of abuse and rape too!" It's not an
untrue statement and a male victim is no less tragic than a female
victim, but don't you see you'd be undermining the protestors' attempt
to draw attention to a very specific issue?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 9  

There are good cops and bad, but the media and uninformed people
seem to try and make all police look bad.

-----

No, it makes it look like there is a police culture that protects bad cops
and allows them continue in their jobs to the detriment of the people
they are supposed to be protecting. And I've heard this opinion from
actual cops, not just the media.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 10  

Yes, Jeremy, I'm referring to Alton Sterling. There's all this outrage over him being shot, yet a lot of the media is ignoring the fact that he bought the gun he was carrying the day he was shot, despite not being legally allowed to carry a gun. They've been painting him as an innocent victim and spreading outrage, completely leaving out the fact he was a convicted sex offender. The only thing I find fishy is the two officers saying their body cams fell off. Yeah, right....

My point is, even if you believe the officers were wrong to shoot him, you can't honestly defend the people who are completely ignoring the fact he was a criminal and are treating him as just another victim of the police.

The Castile shooting, however, was coldblooded murder. And it doesn't matter if they did recover a gun at the scene since he wasn't brandishing it or even reaching for it when he was shot.

And yes, one problem is that the police do protect their own. The other problem is that the media only cares about stories involving bad cops and shootings, justified or not. You rarely hear stories about good things the police do, like charity work or helping people in bad situations that require the use of guns or handcuffs. For every good police story, you hear 20 bad ones. 

I should also state that I have at least 5 police in the family, and they don't condone bad cops getting protected. My aunt and uncle have never even had to shoot someone, despite one call when he was a K9 officer (he's a detective now) where someone pulled a shotgun on him.

To me the problem is that the police do their own policing. There should be civilian review boards, not the boys in blue protecting their own when they do bad things.




Edited by Brian Floyd on 10 July 2016 at 12:26pm
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 11  

Don't loose sight of the fact people are dying needlessly just because of the semantics involved in naming the movements.

There are some articles going around on the net that use the situation in Dallas as an example of how arming everyone does nothing to deter these kinds of mass shooting. There were 100+ armed police officers, there were people marching in the demonstration with conceal carry permits and yet all those armed individuals did nothing to "protect" themselves from the killer. Don't let the rhetoric about naming the movement or the misdirection attacks on "Black Lives Matter" being labelled a terrorist group change the focus of these events. People dying senselessly and needlessly just to allow the guns and the ability to kill quickly and at range in the hands of the public.
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Jeremy Simington
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Posted: 10 July 2016 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 12  

BRIAN FLOYD: you can't honestly defend the people who are completely ignoring the fact he was a criminal and are treating him as just another victim of the police.

Brian, I think you and I share mostly common ground on these issues.  However, I want to respond to this statement.   Yes, Alton Sterling had a criminal record.  However, we have NO IDEA right now whether he did anything that justified being shot to death.  His criminal background is completely irrelevant.  Police are not allowed to shoot you to death based on your criminal record.  Having seen the videos available online, it absolutely looks to me like he was unjustifiably killed.  We'll know a lot more when the FBI finishes its investigation, which is really easy for me to say as a privileged, white male.  I understand why people who have been victims of the institutionalized racism that infects America are not willing to sit quietly and wait for the FBI.  
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