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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132225
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 1
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I just spent a few minutes depressing myself by clicking thru the online Marvel database. SO many characters are dead -- but even sadder than that, perhaps, is that death is often listed as their "Current Status."Mark Twain supposedly said the thing that distinguishes Americans from all others is that we think death is optional. In the current state of the "Marvel Multiverse," it is at least impermanent. Death is very often a cheap trick in modern comics, but I have come to realize that the trick that is actually cheaper is resurrection.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7478
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 2
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I hear the reason given for bringing back dead characters is that the company wants to keep the rights and hold onto the intellectual property--but in some cases, the logical response is: why?
I can see (sort of) wanting to keep your options open but maybe it's better in some cases to let the character die and have the identity live on. Should we demand the return of Bruce Banner at some point, or should we let someone else suffer the curse of being the Hulk?
(And I know that flies in the face of my wanting Mac to return in ALPHA FLIGHT but I am not always consistent.)
Probably the best way to go is the way they used to do it. *Suggest* that the villain (usually) died but don't show a body; don't make it absolutely certain. That gives you your wiggle room. When you invoke certain death, that's when you invite a problem.
All this to say: death should not be something a hero or villain (much less a normal human supporting character) is expected to overcome.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 22 July 2016 at 8:00am
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8840
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 3
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This was one of the main reasons why I stopped reading comics. The enjoyment got completely sucked out of them because of the gimmicks and resurrections.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132225
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 4
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I hear the reason given for bringing back dead characters is that the company wants to keep the rights and hold onto the intellectual property…•• A flashback issue would accomplish that.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 5
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Only Banner should be the Hulk,only Jennifer his blood relative,infused with his blood should be She-Hulk.Phoenix i can just about tolerate being resurrected as her name implies re-birth from flames.After a while,all these deaths and resurrections become tedious and lose their impact.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Like anything, it's been overdone.
Death is merely an 'occupational hazard' in superhero comics. And it takes away from the poignancy, knowing that a hero or villain will either return from the dead or reveal himself/herself to not actually have died.
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 7
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I think the reason is that Writer A thinks it's a really good idea to kill Captain Super and replace him with Jimmy Cutie. But when Writer C comes to the title, oh, he wants to tell stories featuring the real Captain Super, so he brings him back. Then Writer F decides it's time for Captain Super to betray everything he once stood for... And not one new villain is created.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 8
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There was a little alien creature who sacrificed its life to save Superman in a 1960s (or perhaps 1950s) issue of WORLD's FINEST COMICS. It soaked in harmful Kryptonite rays.
Touching tale. Now, yes, no-one is ever going to bring that creature back. It isn't a major character in comics, but my point is that it felt so poignant because death was final in that particular story (I read a black and white reprint of it in the late 80s).
Death isn't poignant in comics now. Will they bring back Uncle Ben or Thomas Wayne in ten years' time? Highly unlikely, but I bet someone is thinking about it!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 9
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I still want to see the story - at DC or Marvel - where a grieving woman comes up to the Justice League, Fantastic Four, whomever, and says, "You died, and you died, and you died. You're here alive, and everyone moved heaven and earth to bring you back. My husband died of cancer. I never worked, and I have four children. Why isn't he worth bringing back?"
Of course, it could NEVER happen... but I think that on either Earth, a lot of people feel that way.
I guess this is the same logic as why Iron Man hasn't provided armor to every police officer and military member, or why Green Lantern hasn't used his power ring to fix the infrastructure of every state or eliminate pollution, or why Superman hasn't fixed climate change.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132225
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 10
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There was a little alien creature who sacrificed its life to save Superman in a 1960s (or perhaps 1950s) issue of WORLD's FINEST COMICS. It soaked in harmful Kryptonite rays. Touching tale. Now, yes, no-one is ever going to bring that creature back. •• Of the top of my head I can think of three or four writers who would, and none of them are me!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132225
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 11
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I still want to see the story - at DC or Marvel - where a grieving woman comes up to the Justice League, Fantastic Four, whomever, and says, "You died, and you died, and you died. You're here alive, and everyone moved heaven and earth to bring you back. My husband died of cancer. I never worked, and I have four children. Why isn't he worth bringing back?"Of course, it could NEVER happen... but I think that on either Earth, a lot of people feel that way. I guess this is the same logic as why Iron Man hasn't provided armor to every police officer and military member, or why Green Lantern hasn't used his power ring to fix the infrastructure of every state or eliminate pollution, or why Superman hasn't fixed climate change. •• One of the major flaws, I felt, of THE DEATH OF CAPTAIN MARVEL was that the Heroes came up with three or four cures for cancer that would not work on Mar-Vel because of his "nega-bands" -- and yet somehow there was no follow-up to whether or not they would work on anybody else! Important lesson, there. If we want to have a character dying of an "incurable disease," either don't tell us what it is, or make something up. Bring the Real World into these books, and we have to start explaining why the world isn't very, very different from the one we know. The basic rule of superhero comics is that THEY DON'T REALLY CHANGE ANYTHING. (I tried to explain to Christopher Reeve why it was a bad idea to have Superman get rid of all the nuclear weapons on Earth. We don't really want to walk out of the theater and be instantly reminded that the movie we've just watched is absolutely not true.)
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 588
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| Posted: 22 July 2016 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 12
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I hear the reason given for bringing back dead characters is that the company wants to keep the rights and hold onto the intellectual property…•• A flashback issue would accomplish that. ++ A trade paperback or online publication accomplishes that. There is no reason for a "new" published story, just a published story.
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Topic Closed)
