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Bill Collins
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 1  

Regarding Harry Potter,doesn`t the new(canon) stage production negate the happy ending of the books? I read a review a couple of days ago,whilst positive,it is a bum numbing 5-6 hours long,albeit with a break!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 2  

…a bum numbing 5-6 hours long…

••

Jay-SOOS! The unexpurgated HAMLET is only 4!!

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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 3  

Some years ago, Marvel started doing some specials I think were all subtitled "The End", or something like that, to denote these future stories were the last adventures for each character. For months, these specials ended with the heroic death of whoever the main character was. And then Alan Davis surprised us all with Fantastic Four: The End, and purposely gave us a happy ending for the entire team, and blatantly said so in the text. Brilliant.

Happy endings can be great, and appropriate. Return of the King springs to mind.   But with a franchise, one can always come back and undo the happy ending with an additional miserable adventure. Star Trek TUC had a happy ending, but hey, let's bring back Kirk in Generations just so we can kill him. Or Han in The Force Awakens. It's hard to make a happy ending tamper proof in a world of sequels.
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John Popa
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 4  

Wes Craven fought against that tag ending for the original 'Elm Street.' He felt that if Nancy didn't actually kill Freddy then she failed and it undercut the character's arc completely. But he was thinking thematically, as a writer. Bob Shaye, the head of New Line Cinema, insisted on it, just to set up the possibilities of sequels. He was thinking as a producer :)

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 5  

When I enjoy a work of fiction, a lot of it is my sympathy with the protagonists. Superman, Harry Potter, Sherlock Holmes, Captain Kirk - in any case, I am kind of invested with their stories and their overcoming adversity and the conflict.

So when the ending is not satisfactory or happy, I feel disappointed and a bit cheated. I want Snow White to marry the prince; I want the tormentor of the heroes to be arrested or brought to an appropriate end; I want the nerd to get the girl and his comeuppance against the jocks/teachers/whoever's been oppressing him/her during the movie.

Why would someone want to be dissatisfied with their fiction? Once in a great while, possibly it works ("Damn you! Damn you all to hell!"). But generally, stories begin and end, and I'd like to enjoy the end.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 6  

Why would someone want to be dissatisfied with their fiction? Once in a great while, possibly it works ("Damn you! Damn you all to hell!"). But generally, stories begin and end, and I'd like to enjoy the end.

***

It's my mindset, Eric.

There are exceptions, of course. My days spent watching WWF and WCW wrestling would have been boring if the good guys won EVERY match, but even that it was different: the dastardly wrestling heel might win a match or championship and totally obliterate a good guy - but down the line, you knew he'd get his comeuppance.

It's why I don't watch some of this horror that is designated torture porn. You get a few bad guys (dispensable ones) getting it, but the main villains or their controllers get away. 


Edited by Robbie Parry on 27 July 2016 at 11:37am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 7  

Some years ago, Marvel started doing some specials I think were all subtitled "The End", or something like that, to denote these future stories were the last adventures for each character. For months, these specials ended with the heroic death of whoever the main character was. And then Alan Davis surprised us all with Fantastic Four: The End, and purposely gave us a happy ending for the entire team, and blatantly said so in the text. Brilliant.

••

I was all set to do the FF version, then, ah, things happened. While I did not have what could be clearly defined as a Happy Ending planned, I did wrap up with "tomorrow is another day."

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John Popa
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 8  

I don't think a dark ending is necessarily less satisfying than a happy ending. It depends on the story and the genre. In horror, there's an expectation that the confrontation with the monster won't end so well - 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' is a good example, sure, the main girl survives but that's about it, she's lost a lot and it's not like she becomes a super hero at the end and saves the day. The ending is in line with the tone of the story. If Sally would have just mowed down the bad guys and rode off into the sunset, it wouldn't have been a fair result based on the set up.

In an ongoing action serial, though, the general expectation is that the hero will solve the riddle and come out of things essentially unscathed, save some bumps and bruises. 'Spider-Man' tweaked that a bit by having him always beat the bad guy, but, at the same time, it usually cost him something in his personal life. Still, to have Spider-Man simply fail to stop the Green Goblin isn't in line with the expectations for that sort of thing.

But, in a grander sense, I don't really buy into the notion that a story has to have a happy ending to let me escape from the rigeurs of real life. It's a story, make me laugh, make me cry, scare the pants out of me, it's all the same, I'm not looking for some kind of catharsis, just a dynamic bit of storytelling. If a bleak ending is organic to the situation, all the more interesting to me.

Edited by John Popa on 27 July 2016 at 12:20pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 9  

I hear what you are saying, John. 

The nihilism just got me down with certain films, particularly some modern horrors. Totally immoral individuals (i.e. WOLF CREEK) torturing and killing people without any comeuppance. No-one stands a chance. They can butcher and kill people in more than one film and get away with it. 

It's not my sort of entertainment. Dracula may have bitten many people, but you always knew he'd get the stake at the end! Sure, he'd return, but then he'd get staked again. And every horror icon gets killed (for good) eventually...until the next reboot, that is. ;)
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 27 July 2016 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 10  

The ending has to have a purpose for me, and usually it has to be happy. I read a horror novel once in which all the characters get killed by the bad guy one by one until all are dead. The End. I didn't get the point of writing the story. If they all die and leave the threat active, what's the point?

I do like the Spider-Man or King Arthur type sacrifice to beat the villain. Or when victory is not what you expect. Saving Private Ryan isn't exactly happy with all the death at the end, but it is satisfying for me.

The ending I don't think is happy is when someone changes themselves to be with a romantic interest. Rogue in the X-Men movies gives up her powers to be with Bobby. That just makes her weak in my mind.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 28 July 2016 at 1:44am | IP Logged | 11  

Andy,which Life On Mars did you watch,the U.S. or U.K. version? 

It was the UK version.  I'm  not sure how to talk about it without giving things away.  The ending was very dissatisfying to me though.  It didn't feel like that was the ending they had in mind and that they expected to go for another season, but had to unexpectedly wrap things up.

Overall, I've been trying to figure out when a heroic death is warranted or at least for a death to have meaning.  A specific example I've been battling with is from one of the other shows I mentioned(don't want to give the specific character).

But the writing puts that character in a no-win situation so they are forced to die.  IMO, a convoluted and contrived situation that was designed solely to kill off the character.  It served no real purpose and was forced in there for shock value.

I just don't know.  I mean, I realize not every story can have a happy ending so maybe it's more about serialized characters or something.  I just know that after putting in season after season of getting to know these characters, I'm not usually ready for them to get killed off just because the show is ending.


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Bill Collins
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Posted: 28 July 2016 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 12  

Andy,i thought the U.S. version had a better ending,but as it only lasted one series,the U.K. version lasting four if you include the 3 seasons of Ashes To Ashes,i suspect the U.K. writers felt obliged to change the ending as it had already been `spoilt` by the U.S.(Otherwise why call it Life On Mars)
As for the U.S. version only lasting one series,they must have had the ending in mind from day one,as the little clues were all there! As for the final season of Ashes To Ashes,as i said previously,i think the writers tried to bluff us into thinking the ending would match the U.S. version by the star fields the cast kept seeing.
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