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Joie Simmons Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 288
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 1
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That kind of logic just makes me wonder what created "The Universe" and all of the infinite numbers beyond that.
Then I think that we're looking for things on our own scale. There could be an infinite number of infinite things at smaller sizes we haven't come across yet.Then that makes me wonder what Kirby and Lee could have done with that as the base for a story.
When it comes to the universe, parallel universes, and possibilities, my brain goes from the evidence to the possibilities, then straight to a Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four comic that only exists in my head.
Edited by Joie Simmons on 25 August 2016 at 9:03am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132333
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 2
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...makes me wonder what created "The Universe" and all of the infinite numbers beyond that.••• Chance.
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7488
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 3
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Good point about the confusion between "terrestrial" and "Earth-like," JB. Too often terms are used interchangeably when the meaning is not nearly synonymous. Raw math does indeed suggest we are FAR from alone in the universe. It's unlikely we'll have direct confirmation of this, unless we find a way to bend the laws of time and space to make interstellar travel a reality, but I like feeling certain we aren't here by ourselves.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 4
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...makes me wonder what created "The Universe" and all of the infinite numbers beyond that.
***
I am of the belief that anything (almost anything) can happen if enough time elapses.
It's like with evolution: creationists will say, "Hang on, how did this creature 'zap' into a new creature?" Yet the short film I saw lately, and the books I read, show it was incremental.
Does the word "incremental" not also apply to the birth and development of the universe?
Edited by Robbie Parry on 25 August 2016 at 12:09pm
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Joie Simmons Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 288
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 5
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Does the word "incremental" not also apply to the birth and development of the universe?
***
If only something could tell us what the increments are. We could still be in the first second of The Universe.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 6
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A comment like that will only confuse me, Joie. ;)
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Joie Simmons Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 288
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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A comment like that will only confuse me, Joie. ;)
***
My 4-year old was asking about space and planets the other day. We don't have a telescope and didn't have any books around at that time for any frame of reference, and I tried to explain it to him and had to wrap it all up with "Space is really really big."
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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Space is big! And after reading about supergiant galaxies in the latest edition of "All About Space", I'm even more in awe now!
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Robert Shepherd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 March 2014 Location: United States Posts: 1268
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 9
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Space is big....
The latest little daydreaming session I've had is that even though gravity is a "weak" force or seems weak because we simply cannot measure it as effectively as we think we can. It seems to me that the gravity from every object may extend the entire distance of the universe.
Thats why black holes can keep whole galaxies of stars tied up.
So that would also mean that Earth's gravity, as infinitesimally small as it is when compared to the entire universe, still has an effect on every object in the universe.
Edited by Robert Shepherd on 25 August 2016 at 8:54pm
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2178
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Posted: 25 August 2016 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | 10
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Robert>>It seems to me that the gravity from every object may extend the entire distance of the universe.<<
It does do this. It gets weaker farther from the source, but it's never zero. For instance, if you were standing on a tower that doubled your distance from the Earth's core from where you are now, you'd weigh 1/4 as much. Three times, it's 1/9th. Four times, 1/16th as much and so on. A very precise knowledge of how gravity behaves is necessary to send spacecraft to distant planets, etc. The term "zero gravity" for what astronauts experience is, to be polite, really misleading. "Free fall" is much more accurate. The Earth's gravity in low-Earth orbit (where you are moving sideways at 17,500 miles per hour) is almost as strong as it is on the ground, but spacecraft and astronauts are falling through it, so they don't feel any weight. Gravity then "merely" bends their path into a circle around the planet.
>>Thats why black holes can keep whole galaxies of stars tied up.<<
Most of a galaxy's mass (more than 99%) is in the stars, nebula and dark matter orbiting the core. These are really orbiting the center of mass of each other more than the central supermassive black hole. If you could remove the black hole at the center, the rest of the galaxy wouldn't notice much. The black hole is super-important for the formation of stars in the first place, but they tend to clean out the areas near them after a while. If they become active later in their life (stuff falling into them), they can do stuff like this "Death Star" galaxy and shoot out a beam that blasts the crap out of neighboring galaxies.
>>So that would also mean that Earth's gravity, as infinitesimally small as it is when compared to the entire universe, still has an effect on every object in the universe. <<
Eventually, yup! It does, and of course vice-versa. Note the effect is "communicated" at the speed of light, so that's why I said "eventually."
Aside: they just discovered a "ghost" galaxy with a cool name, "Dragonfly 44," that is 99.99% Dark Matter. Nobody is going have a sci-fi story with that in it ever. Nope.
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J W Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 June 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 353
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Posted: 26 August 2016 at 1:43am | IP Logged | 11
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It's amusing to think that if 80-90% of everything in the universe is dark matter then the 'dark universe' is effectively 'real' and the non-dark matter component of the universe, everything we can directly perceive, more or less exists in the error bars of a dark universe's scientist's experimental observations.
Edited by J W Campbell on 26 August 2016 at 1:43am
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 26 August 2016 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 12
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Space is big. This is why I have reason to believe that there are indeed other intelligent races out there, and we don't know about them because they are so far away. And they have no way to contact us, and vice versa. Our super telescopes can pick up light and other associated quanta, and we have radio telescopes to observe other wavelengths of radiated energy.
But that energy comes from stars. We can send capsules with information in them, and we can broadcast on radio wavelengths. But these are minuscule efforts compared to the size of the universe - heck, just to the size of the Milky Way. How far could a craft have traveled since a launch in the 70s? I doubt it's traveled far enough to reach Centauri yet. And I'm not a physics expert, but don't broadcast signals degrade over time? Even if they don't, they couldn't have traveled farther than 40 or 50 light years by now - not very far at all.
We could conceive of a way to broadcast visual signals (e.g., making the sun a gigantic signal lantern), but we can't practically do it. It might be the case with other intelligences. Maybe they're sending us messages and we just haven't received them yet... and never will.
Of course, this is no proof either way of ETI - but it is a consideration. Until someone shows that FTL travel is possible, we may just have to resign ourselves to the fact that we're alone for the time being. A LONG time being.
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