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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: April 16 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 1
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Uncle Ben's death would prompt Peter into becoming a Police Scientist. Then one fateful night at the lab during a thunderstorm....
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: April 30 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 2
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Regarding the issue of when Ditko took over as sole plotter of Spider-Man: doing some more reading, I've found that on the letters page of Spider-Man #17, Stan says that the following issue is plotted entirely by Ditko. Given Ditko's comment that he took over sole plotting several months before he started receiving credit for it, it stands to reason that he likely was sole plotter from issue #18 onward.
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Don Zomberg
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Joined: November 23 2005
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ditko reworked Stan's original plot for ASM #14. The Green Goblin was originally a genie or demon.
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yep, Ditko says he felt a magic-based Green Goblin was wrong for Spider-Man, so he rejected Stan's concept.
One interesting thing in Ditko's essays is that he rebuts the popular misconception that he'd wanted the Green Goblin to be someone other than Norman Osborn, and that he and Stan argued about it. He makes it clear that he intended Osborn to be the Goblin from the very beginning.
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: April 16 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 5
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GREG: After all, Peter arguably came out of his shell, after that fateful
spider-bite. Would the shy, bespectacled Peter of that first story have ever
had to confidence to date a knockout like Mary Jane, once he got into
college?
SER: It depends on the extent to which we're supposed to believe that Peter
Parker -- pre-spider-bite -- is like most of us. Bluntly put, how many of us
would have dated Gwens or MJs in college or, well, ever? Peter Parker as
the genius inventor Zuckerberg of his time might be the ladies man as an
*adult.* But college is not that far removed from high school in many ways.
The Ditko Peter is a bit different, also, from the Romita one, who is much
more attractive. I don't know if the intent was to imply that he'd started
looking more athletic as a result of the exercise he got as Spider-Man.
Unfortunately, for perhaps many obvious reasons, "nerds" in comics and TV
can quickly become the victims of "fan service." Xander in BUFFY was
supposed to be the "creator stand in" and soon wound up dating Cordelia
and Anya. They even had to introduce 'sub nerds' like Jonathan and Andrew
as Xander was clearly no longer that.
And once M.J. somehow became a fashion model, Peter Parker suddenly
had a dating history similar to Bruce Wayne. That doesn't work for me. I
prefer Betty Brant.
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: April 16 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 6
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JASON: Yep, Ditko says he felt a magic-based Green Goblin was wrong for
Spider-Man, so he rejected Stan's concept.
SER: This reminds me of how a friend whose only exposure to Spider-Man was
the Raimi films sneered up her nose when the alien costume turned up in
SPIDER-MAN 3. "Huh, what are aliens doing in a Spider-Man movie?"
Indeed. She was a "civilian" but instinctively understood that something was
"off" about the alien costume in the world of Spider-Man. By the time Venom
turned up, she'd completely lost interest.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
Posts: 132311
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 7
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Marvel lost their grip on Spider-Mans "street level" nature a long time ago. Remember, back around the period I was art robot on MARVEL TEAM-UP, there had been time travel stories, and even I drew him on the Moon. Basically, he had turned into the Silver Age Batman -- another character who severely lost his way.
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Dave Phelps
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Joined: April 16 2004
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
| SER: It depends on the extent to which we're supposed to believe that Peter Parker -- pre-spider-bite -- is like most of us. Bluntly put, how many of us would have dated Gwens or MJs in college or, well, ever? |
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Or have someone like Liz chasing after us...
Gwen and Pete shared a major and MJ was a parental set-up. Stranger things have happened. The main barrier to "nerd/non-nerd" couplings is a lack of common ground. The academic and/or familial connections helped provide that.
QUOTE:
| And once M.J. somehow became a fashion model, Peter Parker suddenly had a dating history similar to Bruce Wayne. That doesn't work for me. I prefer Betty Brant. |
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Arguably, Betty's the most unrealistic one of all. A full time secretary dating a high school kid? (I know there was a note in the letter's page saying Betty was actually a high school drop out who was younger than Peter, but that never made it into the actual books and once Ned showed up...) At least the others were his peers. :-)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: May 11 2005
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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Peter is like Chandler Bing, a "loser" mostly because we say he is. Meanwhile, cool job and hot girls all around.
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: April 22 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| Ditko reworked Stan's original plot for ASM #14. The Green Goblin was originally a genie or demon. |
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Released from a sarcophagus by a film crew making a movie in the desert.
Ditko managed to keep the "film crew in the desert" angle in his reworking of the story, but in a completely different context. So Stan was actively contributing to the plot back then, but Ditko had a lot of leeway to go off in his own direction.
Also of note is that Ditko said he didn't like the story in ASM #1 where Spider-Man saves Jonah's astronaut son - he felt that was too far outside of a teenager's world. So it would seem that the earlier issues stuck closer to Stan's plots.
Ditko didn't like guest stars in the series either, feeling that the hero should solve their own problems. Towards the end of Ditko's run the guest stars stop appearing, so that's a good indicator of when Ditko was plotting the stories solo. (He did fully plot ASM Annual #2 with Doctor Strange, which he felt was fine because an annual was a special event seperate from the issue to issue continuity of the main series.)
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: April 19 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6106
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 11
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Interesting, because the contrast between the hard-luck Spider-man and the celebrated Human Torch is something I look forward to every time I go back to those Lee/Ditko issues.
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: June 17 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: September 23 2016 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 12
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Took me a while, but read the posts here and the original link.
All I can add, about the original link, is...
Beware of articles which feature much use of the words "appears" and "seems". Plus, other phrases like "may well be".
Hell of a lot of speculation in that article.
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