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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7593
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Posted: 27 September 2016 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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I don't mean to dogpile on Fred and I mean this in a non-scolding way, but voting third party is impractical. Come 2017, only one of two people are going to be sitting in the Oval Office. Voting the perceived "lesser of two evils" is not inspiring or glamorous, but sometimes life's choices stink. I live in a solidly Blue state and I still refuse to think of my vote as being superfluous.
Edited by Thom Price on 27 September 2016 at 6:57pm
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8322
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Posted: 27 September 2016 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 2
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We decided not to watch the debate and put on a movie, but when we were done the tv happened to be on the debate. So we watched a few minutes of it.
I'm appalled anyone would support Trump if they watched the debate, from what I saw of it. Did he ever actually answer any questions? When it was on, they were supposed to talk about how they'd prevent cyber attacks. Instead Trump just talked about endorsements he had then proceeded to attack Hillary over the emails and how the Democratic party treated Bernie Sanders. Then instead of talking about terrorism, he blasted NATO. That's all I personally could stand to watch, so we put on some shows we DVR'd.
Trump is a special kind of stupid.
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Steven Legge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 866
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Posted: 27 September 2016 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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I know! We couldn't believe she let that one slide
It was smart to not draw attention to that immediately. Talk about something else so he doesn't explain it away as a joke. Instead there's this nice clean quote everyone heard (So he can't deny saying it.) that he's given to her on a plate that she can use against him.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7581
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 4
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there's this nice clean quote everyone heard (So he can't deny saying it.) ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------- Since when has Trump let evidence dictate whether he denies something or not? Please ref supporting/not supporting Iraq war as one example of this.
I am truly amazed that he pretty much said, people that don't pay taxes are smart.
But then, he's also, since the debate ended, talked about a faulty microphone making him sound like he has the sniffles, said he almost brought up Bill Clinton's affairs (might not be so smart after Ivana Trump, or the fact that he's had 3 marriages himself) and a whole myriad of other stuff.
There's only so far you can get in an actual debate when all you do is waffle and talk rhetoric.
I think all people really need to do is ask - could you seriously see THAT MAN in a diplomatic meeting with a foreign power?
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Kevin Hagerman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 17995
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:27am | IP Logged | 5
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I don't mean to dogpile on Fred and I mean this in a non-scolding way, but voting third party is impractical. Come 2017, only one of two people are going to be sitting in the Oval Office. ---- Third-party votes are about future elections. Look; I'm in Illinois. Illinois is going to Hillary Clinton. She's 95% likely to carry the state. So my one little vote won't be missed in the short run. But if I were to vote for Gary Johnson, it increases the Libertarian party. That might grow their viability down the line, which I consider a net positive. As the saying goes, the second best time to plant a tree is today. The best time to plant a tree is x years ago. By all means, if you live in a swing state, own it and go deliver your state. But some of us have different trajectories to explore. Truly, I am bummed that Donald Trump isn't polling third or worse. He's THAT bad a candidate. I may vote for HRC anyway just because he needs to suffer complete humiliation at the polls and I want to be a part of that.
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Fred J Chamberlain Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4015
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 5:31am | IP Logged | 6
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A vote for Johnson is not a vote for Trump or Clinton. While one could argue that it may hold sway, the two scenarios are not synonymous.
Without going into detail about which of Johnson's positions I agree with and which I don't (Truth be told not much of a different stance than I've had with any other candidate for office I've ever voted for. Johnson has plenty of experience and was extremely popular with his constituents. I am always puzzled when a "free thinker" agrees with every position of another entity... candidate, church, friend, etc), I will echo Kevin's sentiment 100%. To believe we have 2 choices is short- sighted and makes each of us as culpable as those voting for them. The two party system is rigged, from those in the positions of power to our news agencies. Our nation has become lazy and, though we all piss and moan, the vast majority want nice, easily digestible sound clips and don't seek out secondary (or even primary!) sources for the information that we are being given.
Something needs to change and the only people that will make those changes are those not currently in power. Empires inevitably fall. They fall from outside forces or when overthrown by their people. History has shown that. I'd prefer to move towards adapting to further growth and prosperity for both our citizenry and our relationship with outside nations, not away from it. I believe that the two candidates would damage one or both of those goals.
As I initially stated, I will vote for Johnson, unless it becomes clear to me that Hillary is at risk of losing Pennsylvania.
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Robert LaGuardia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1296
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 6:01am | IP Logged | 7
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In the beginning of the debate I was a bit worried that we would have a JFK/Nixon situation where one candidate comes off better on camera than the other. Trump has an off-the-cuff style that resonates with many voters, while Hillary, I hate to say, is almost devoid of charm. She certainly loosened up at the debate went on, but I still couldn't help but think of how Bill Clinton or Obama would have lit up that stage.
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7593
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 8
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Illinois is going to Hillary Clinton. She's 95% likely to carry the state. So my one little vote won't be missed in the short run.
***
If enough people think that, sure it will. This is not a conventional election. Trump has defied expectations again and again. Hillary, unfortunately, is an unpopular candidate, due to a bruising primary that left many Sanders supporters bitter, her own lack of charisma, and a mountain of scandals both real and fictional. Low enthusiasm resulting in low Democratic voter turnout is a distinct possibility. The very attitude that you're displaying is precisely why Trump has a decent shot; too many otherwise Democratic voters would rather assuage their conscience than make a strategic vote to block Trump.
Wanting to break the two party system is a worthy goal but aside from this being the worst election in my lifetime to attempt that, I seriously question to practicality of electing a third party President and expecting results. Let's say by some miracle a Green or Libertarian candidate wins; then what? You have a President who is hated and resented on both sides of the aisle in Congress. Not really a recipe for a productive term.
The reality is that attempts to change the system needs to be done from the ground up. When Green or Libertarian parties decide to put their energies at a local and state level, that's when I stop regarding them with derision. Scuttling out of obscurity every four years for a doomed Presidential bid isn't going to cut it. Say what you will about the Tea Party, but they understand politics. Little wonder state and local governments have been overrun with Republicans in the last 8 years.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8009
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 9
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Absolutely right, Thom. We have seen Independent Governors and Senators, but even that is extremely rare. But at least it's possible. Though even when it happens, don't they at least make it to the televised debate stage? Because Johnson and Stein did not, and I see no chance for them to make any sort of headway as a result.
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Steven Legge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 866
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 10
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Since when has Trump let evidence dictate whether he denies something or not?
By saying he can't deny saying it certainly doesn't mean he won't. I can guarantee the Clinton camp has enthusiastically prepared for such a denial for a future debate.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 11
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THOM: Wanting to break the two party system is a worthy goal but aside from this being the worst election in my lifetime to attempt that, I seriously question to practicality of electing a third party President and expecting results. Let's say by some miracle a Green or Libertarian candidate wins; then what? You have a President who is hated and resented on both sides of the aisle in Congress. Not really a recipe for a productive term.
SER: THANK YOU! A third party has to be built from the ground up. You need an infrastructure in Congress within to help push your platform and agenda.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7581
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 12
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Why would anyone vote for a guy who doesn't know what Aleppo is? That's ignorance on a monumental scale.
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