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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 1  

The DOCTOR WHO figurine collection includes this description of Eccleston's Doctor:

"And so for 13 glorious episodes, he was the Ninth Doctor, the battle-scarred survivor of the Time War, re-learning his joy of the universe..."

Except not. Not after Moffat decided his very own Doctor, one nobody had ever heard of before, had to be the one who fought in the Time War.

Gods of Gallifrey, save us from fan wank!

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 October 2016 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 2  

Big mistake on Moffatt's part. Totally unnecessary. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 October 2016 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 3  

To make matters worse I just watched a YouTube clip of WD regenerating into D9, which included a lot of preamble gobbledegook about how he won't remember that he tried to save Gallifrey, not burn it. So Moffat did totally gut D9 in order to create his own toy.

Class.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 October 2016 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 4  

Moffat has written big-budget "fan fiction" as far as I am concerned.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 October 2016 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 5  

Last night I watched the first couple of episodes of NuWHO, and there can be no rational argument over whether 9 remembered everything that happened in the Time Wars, and was himself only recently regenerated.

So we are left again with the "War Doctor" being pure fan-wank, with Moffat giving himself the Big Story introduced before he came aboard, AND an "extra Doctor" that wasn't supposed to exist.

Pathetic.

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 11 October 2016 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 6  

So we are left again with the "War Doctor" being pure fan-wank, with Moffat giving himself the Big Story introduced before he came aboard, AND an "extra Doctor" that wasn't supposed to exist.
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While Moffatt was certainly able to do whatever he wanted to and the lion's share of the blame for what he put on screen lies with him, Eccleston does bear some of the blame here for the War Doctor.  The 50th Anniversary special went all the way to storyboards with the 9th Doctor teaming up with 10 and 11.  It was only when, well into the process, Eccleston simply refused to participate that Moffatt had to pull something else together.

Again, he chose the War Doctor, so that's on him.  It would have been much better, I think, to have just switched out 9 for 8, and had the special end with 8 regenerating into 9.  But that's easy for me to say now, since I also don't have a major British actor on my phone telling me he wants to be involved in Doctor Who.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 11 October 2016 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 7  

Last night I watched the first couple of episodes of NuWHO, and there can be no rational argument over whether 9 remembered everything that happened in the Time Wars, and was himself only recently regenerated.

So we are left again with the "War Doctor" being pure fan-wank, with Moffat giving himself the Big Story introduced before he came aboard, AND an "extra Doctor" that wasn't supposed to exist.

Pathetic.

***

I completely agree.

I am quite surprised that none of the media over here criticized that. Perhaps some did, but magazines and newspapers over here seem a tad sycophantic towards NuWho). 

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Brian Skelley
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Posted: 12 October 2016 at 12:47am | IP Logged | 8  

 Steve De Young wrote:
It was only when, well into the process, Eccleston simply refused to participate that Moffatt had to pull something else together.

I had remembered seeing Moffatt talking about the main reason for his changing up the Time War was because he felt the Doctor couldn't be the hero we love if he committed genocide of his own people. That's why he went out of his way to show not only did the Doctor not do it, but the Time Lords were alive and well.. even better than the End of Time where we saw what was supposedly their fate.

Personally I liked the idea that the Doctor was forced to do something that was horrible to save the universe. From what little understanding I have of the Doctor, that's something he has to do from time to time, choose the fate of people. I also really liked that we didn't know exactly what he did, and for all we knew he could have had a much less role but felt guilty none the less. Of course, I only really started watching the show after the restart (my mother was a huge fan of the show from it's start, but has stopped watching after Smith's second season as she declared it "stupid beyond acceptance") so I don't have the attachment, or understanding others have. I have, however lost interest after Tennant moved on, as I personally feel the show changed from being about the Doctor to his companions with him being the idiot that can't get on without them. While I have watched a lot of the newer episodes, that's only because others in my house still want to watch it.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 14 October 2016 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 9  

The only reason I don't crap on the existence of the War Doctor is because of John Hurt being cast in the role. But I hate that the numbering of Doctors is off due to the existence of the War Doctor and Ten's metacrisis regeneration.

 


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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 14 October 2016 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 10  

I agree with you Brian if not for John Hurt I would frown upon the war Doctor. I wish that it had been the 8th Doctor fighting in the Time War. 
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 15 October 2016 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 11  

The numbering isn't really off as JH arguably isn't a 'Doctor', he's a 'War Doctor'. But the numbering has always been fun to discuss. About 40 years ago, my friend and I would argue about whether the faces in Brain of Morbius were the Doctor or not. We still occasionally have the argument now :)
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 October 2016 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 12  

The numbering isn't really off as JH arguably isn't a 'Doctor'

His first onscreen appearance identified him as "The Doctor."

(And, BOY! Watch that intro and see if it doesn't feel like Moffat was throwing darts at a board with random "cool phrases" pinned to it! Plenty of time to figure out a story later, right?)

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Phil Frances
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Posted: 26 October 2016 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 13  

Plenty of time to figure out a story later, right?

***

That unfortunately has been the way of things since Moffat's second season - lots of set-up and bluster, but little pay-off - almost embarrassingly so in places

Such a shame that he can't seem to bring the same level of creativity to Who that I enjoy in Sherlock.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 October 2016 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 14  

That unfortunately has been the way of things since Moffat's second season - lots of set-up and bluster, but little pay-off - almost embarrassingly so in places.

***

What irks me are those who claim they have a plan, but really don't. I actually don't mind folk who are open about not having a plan and who wing it. They are being honest.

I'm sure I read an interview with Stan Lee (many years ago) where he mentioned he made up some things on the fly - or words to that effect. Others have said the same. And that's fine. I have a lot of respect for anyone who says they are doing things on the fly or don't have a plan. 

It's hard to respect people who claim to have dotted every i and crossed every t when you know they really haven't! 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 October 2016 at 8:27am | IP Logged | 15  

I'm sure I read an interview with Stan Lee (many years ago) where he mentioned he made up some things on the fly - or words to that effect.

Read the first year of Spider-Man's adventures, and you will see this very much in operation.

In fact, a primary motivation for CHAPTER ONE was asking "What if Stan and Steve had it all figured out from the start?"

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Andrew Saxon
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Posted: 29 October 2016 at 3:23am | IP Logged | 16  

"Eccleston does bear some of the blame here for the War Doctor."

I don't see how. Why shouldn't an actor be allowed to turn down an appearance if he wants to - or are we going to start creating (with apologies to our esteemed host) a Big Bad Eccleston myth? As others have pointed out, Moffat didn't need to create a new Doctor, he could have brought back McGann and the problem would have been solved. Mr Eccleston had his reasons for leaving the series and we should respect his decision not to return.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 October 2016 at 5:49am | IP Logged | 17  

When I was working on ALPHA FLIGHT I had Puck make reference to an unseen case involving the "Brass Bishop." I gave no details, and it was my intent that nothing further should ever be learned about the affair. This waa to be, I said at the time, my "giant rat of Sumatra " an "untold tale" Arthur Conan Doyle had slipped into the files of Sherlock Holmes.

Alas, later writers, missing the point, would address both the rat and the bishop.

When DOCTOR WHO returned, my immediate impression was that the Time War was cast from the same mold -- that it was meant to be a vast, sweeping storyline that would always be in the backgtound, something we would know existed, but that we would not be shown.

Unfortunately, Moffatt seems to be one of those writers who cannot leave well enough alone.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 29 October 2016 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 18  

When I was working on ALPHA FLIGHT I had Puck make reference to an unseen case involving the "Brass Bishop." I gave no details, and it was my intent that nothing further should ever be learned about the affair. This waa to be, I said at the time, my "giant rat of Sumatra " an "untold tale" Arthur Conan Doyle had slipped into the files of Sherlock Holmes.

***

It may not be the best analogy, but I think of all those "untold tales" from the JAMES BOND films. The pre-credits scene showed some of them, but we often heard that Bond had been here, there, everywhere. At no point did I wish that filmmakers would revisit those "untold tales". It was enough for me to know that prior to, say. LIVE AND LET DIE, Bond had been on a mission I was not privy to.
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