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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 13 October 2016 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 1  

I don't have time to elaborate, but I must say I'm enjoying this season so far. It reminds me of the first two seasons. I like to tone and I like the fight scenes. Even the flashbacks are more interesting and meaningful.
I really hope it keep up the good work.
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Bob Freeman
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Posted: 13 October 2016 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 2  

I'm digging Ragman.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 13 October 2016 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | 3  

I enjoyed these two episodes ... except for Felicity. She nags, scolds, holds veto power over Oliver. But she is not his girlfriend. She is basically a wife without benefits! 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 13 October 2016 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | 4  

I hate, HATE, Ollie killing.  It just feels so wrong on so many levels.  Like THE FLASH wherein Wally should have already learned that you don't mess with time (he even said so in the last ep), Ollie knows this isn't the right path.  Season 5 and we're basically right back where he was Season 1.  To paraphrase Michelle Obama " They want to go low, you stay high".  

Simple, right?
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 14 October 2016 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 5  

I totally agree with Joe. I like John telling off Oliver now and then, but I don't like the way Felicity talks to him.
And the one thing I really didn't like about season 4 is that he killed the villain, and it was kind of the moral of the season: sometimes you have no option but killing.
But in this season, though he seems to be more violent, he hasn't killed anybody, I think. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 14 October 2016 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 6  

Sergio Saavedra: SPOILERS

It seems that Ollie has planted some plain ol' pointy arrows into a number of bad guys with pretty little concern. When I see an arrow hit someone and they fall down without moving or groaning, I conclude that they're dead.

I believe that superheroes don't kill, period - and if they have to kill, then the story is badly written.

As for Felicity - she is being bitchy, but she isn't wrong. Oliver isn't smart enough to tell her where to get off. But it seems quite obvious to me that they are headed to a passionate reconciliation, probably as the mid-season climax (no pun intended...)
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 14 October 2016 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 7  

 Sergio Saavedra wrote:
But in this season, though he seems to be more violent, he hasn't killed anybody, I think.

Oh but he has.  He snapped the neck of a guy to keep his secret.  Not really sure how anyone could miss the conversation with Speedy that followed re: Ollie killing again.  

All kinds of wrong.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 14 October 2016 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 8  

I have no problem whatsoever with him killing Dahrk at the end of last season, because he pretty much deserved it and it really was the only way to stop him. But I don't like Oliver going back to indiscriminately killing bad guys. It doesn't make sense.

(I should note I've only watched the season premiere. I have episode 2 DVR'd but haven't watched it yet.)
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 16 October 2016 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 9  

Who deserves it?  When you start that sliding scale of justice, where does it stop.  Cut  Dahrk off from his magic and imprison him.  They did it for several episodes.  He could have been defeated without killing him.  The writers control the plot.  Plot it that way.

Now, I didn't watch this show until midway into it's third season.  They had the crossover with FLASH and I continued from there.  I never went back and watched from the start because I didn't want to watch him killing people left and right.

He had just given a speech to Sharp several episodes earlier.  She held the Dahrk's responsible for the deaths of her family.  She should be better than that.  But it's different when it's his family or loved ones?
There isn't any real consistency to it either.  How does he reconcile that with letting Machin live in episode 1?  This guy has a personal grudge with Thea.  She maimed him.  He could try to kill her at any time yet Oliver lets him live?

It's just a darker show than I prefer, in general, with my heroes.  John killed his brother in cold blood.  But I'm not a big Oliver Queen fan.  I don't think a ever bought a GREEN ARROW comic.  I know him fairly well from appearances in other books.  I'm not as offended by this as I am by Batman killing people.  Still, I thought the message was Ollie has evolved beyond that.  Despite his saying that he was going to kill the guy, despite even Felicity telling him that he had to kill the guy, I thought, in the end, that he wouldn't kill Dahrk.  I guess he had killed Ras to close the previous season, though.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 16 October 2016 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 10  

Larry Morris - I agree with you about the dark tone and the excess of killing. And I thought they had baldly stated that Ollie wasn't killing anymore. Or as my wife put it, "Where are the boxing glove arrows?"

But I don't think John Diggle killed his brother in cold blood. I think it was a long, passionate, and ultimately futile struggle on John's part - but not quick, cold, and callous.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 16 October 2016 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 11  

If the show had Oliver using trick arrows more often, that would have been a great way to deal with Dahrk. After the first time that Dahrk stopped one of his arrows in midair, it was idiotic to have Oliver try the same thing and expect a different outcome in other episodes. 

Imagine Oliver shoots an arrow and Dahrk stops it. Okay. Same thing happens again later on. But the third time Oliver does it, Dahrk starts gloating....only for Oliver to activate a remote and the arrow turns out to be a taser. Or an explosive. 

THAT would have been a better way to stop Dahrk once and for all.

The one character I expect to die eventually is Malcolm Merlyn. But I'd be surprised if its anyone other than Thea who kills him. (Either that, or he comes to his senses and sacrifices himself to save her from being killed, but I just don't see that happening.) Malcolm should already have been dealt with. They keep putting up with his crap, and by this point it just doesn't make sense that they haven't either imprisoned him or killed him.

And John killing Andy wasn't done in cold blood. It was a reaction, and he regretted it immediately. 


Edited by Brian Floyd on 16 October 2016 at 9:34am
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 16 October 2016 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 12  

"Now, I didn't watch this show until midway into it's third season.  They had the crossover with FLASH and I continued from there.  I never went back and watched from the start because I didn't want to watch him killing people left and right."
------------------------------------------------------

Larry you should go back and watch the Second Season. He only kills during the first, and indeed he starts the second season saying that he's stopped in order to honour the memory of his best friend who died in the last first season episode. (Which he strangely seems to be forgetting about now.)
Also a lot of people rate the second season as the best the show ever did. And I must admit Deathstroke was a fairly decent villain in that season.

Personally I'm surprised they didn't use the whole Flashpoint change enacted by Barry Allen to somehow justify Oliver regressing back there. But I guess they might have worried that that might have confused anyone who watches Arrow but not the Flash. (If there are any who actually do that. As I think it's often the reverse.)

Having said all this I'm enjoying the new season thus far. So I hope it keeps going strong.
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 16 October 2016 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 13  

Depends on how you define cold blood, I guess.  John's brother was unarmed and defenseless.  Now, he was taunting him, no doubt.  John snapped and shot him.  That meets my criteria for cold blood.  

I just thought of another scene.  When Malcolm found out that Brickwell had killed his wife.  He was just about to shoot him.  Oliver made the same sort of speech that he made to Sharp.  That rings very hollow now.  To me, at least.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 17 October 2016 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 14  

I am definitely NOT liking this season.  There are so many reasons why I'm hating it....  Ollie as mayor, Felicity secretly dating a cop (what are the odds that's he's on the take and not a good guy?), the attempt at creating a new team, Lance going down the rabbit hole of alcoholism AGAIN, the idiotic sub-plot of Diggle being framed (seriously, it make no freakin' sense), Tobias Church should be a breeze to defeat and yet he's not (?), and the total lack of apathy when it comes to killing (again).

I think I may stop watching the show, with the exception of when they do the crossover.  It's just not enjoyable any more.
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 17 October 2016 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 15  

Just want to say that I concede the in cold blood point.  That was poor phrasing on my part.  I should have said he shot an unarmed man who was no immediate physical threat to him.  He did not do it in a calculated manner. His brother goaded him and goaded him and John sort of snapped in the moment.  It was not done in a cold, calm or calculated manner.  I still don't like it, but it doesn't really meet the definition of in cold blood.

Like it or not, it seems to be an outdated concept.  I sure don't like it, but it is what it is.  Batman kills, Superman kills.  You are not going to see any AVENGERS movie talking about a charter with a no kill policy.

At least with this series, the hero started out as a killer.  He has been established as a killer.  It's not like this is whole cloth out of character, something that goes against all previously established characterization.
I just thought , and hoped, that he'd evolved beyond it.
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 21 October 2016 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 16  

Erm- Yes, hi kills again.
I hope this has something to do with Flashpoint.
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 17  

Last week's episode.  He might have crippled someone.  How far did he fall from?  Seemed like for shits and giggles to me.  The guy seemed nothing more than some low level criminal he was questioning for information.  Didn't like it.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 02 November 2016 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 18  

Actress Lexa Doig -- whose TV credits include Andromeda, Continuum, Stargate SG-1 and The 4400 -- has been cast in the recurring role of Talia, daughter of Ra’s al Ghul and half-sister of Nyssa. Described as worldly and cultured, Talia is “an elite warrior who doesn’t pick sides but rather creates her own.” She'll likely appear in the tenth installment of this season.

-C!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 November 2016 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 19  

Last week's episode. He might have crippled someone. How far did he
fall from? Seemed like for shits and giggles to me. The guy seemed
nothing more than some low level criminal he was questioning for
information. Didn't like it.

-----

Oliver regularly puts arrows through criminals to maim them, so that
didn't bother me as much as the whole thing seemed ripped off from
the Sal Maroni scene in THE DARK KNIGHT.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 November 2016 at 11:41pm | IP Logged | 20  

I thought tonight's episode was good, and I enjoyed the fight
choreography. My only complaint is how effective can The Human
Target really be if random TV journalist knows his reputation and can
find out about his past jobs?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 03 November 2016 at 12:54am | IP Logged | 21  

We don't know yet if this is just a case of random Journalism. 
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Ed Love
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Posted: 03 November 2016 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 22  

As Chance gets paid for his impersonations, he has to be reasonably well-known for his specialty. Kind of cool that for once we get a character fairly closely portrayed as they are in the comics. My problem with the fight scenes is that too many of the characters look too much alike in design so that when they are fighting in the dark, cannot really tell them apart. In dimly lit scenes, Spartan looks like nameless guy working for Church; Ragman looks like Arrow looks like Prometheus looks like Merlyn. Would be nice if characters didn't look like they all shop at the same army surplus.

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Larry Morris
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Posted: 06 November 2016 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 23  

Does Oliver routinely maim people with his arrows?  Again, I didn't watch the first 2 1/2 seasons.  Since then, I don't recall repeated examples.  Maybe I'm just blanking on them.

I'm talking maiming here.  Shooting Wild Dog with an arrow in this year's opener is not maiming him.  He's wounded and heals.  If I see him shoot bad guys in the shoulder with an arrow I assume the same.

He maimed Merlyn last year, but that was supposed to be a fight to the death.  he found a way to get the ring without killing him.  I did see that as being as cavalier as dropping some low level thug how many feet.  I also thought of the Maroni scene, which i hated.  I can't say as I disliked it as much with Oliver because I'm not as invested in Oliver.

Maybe Arrow is just the wrong show to expect heroes don't kill.  Diggle basically uses a gun and shoots people.  He's shooting all these people and not killing any of them?  How would that work?  Some of the team kills and others don't?
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Sergio Saavedra
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Posted: 18 November 2016 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 24  

I've enjoyed this season so far. I don't like the "to kill or not to kill" topic, but otherwise, it's an exciting series again. I enjoyed their version of Vigilante a lot.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 19 November 2016 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 25  

The "Killing vs No Killing" discussion really is an interesting one. It's especially pertinent when Supergirl or the Flash are brought in, who could kill someone accidentally. Green Arrow is highly trained, and his abilities require him to make a very conscious decision whether or not to kill. Soft of the difference between a martial artist or any jerk who can pick up a gun. One doesn't take much thought or ability...

TANGENT: I rather like the team idea, but I got a hundred bucks* says that before this season is up, that group is referred to as "Green Arrow and the Outsiders." I really think Berlanti wants this show to be Batman and is doing his best to make it so without the actual names.

*Parker Brothers currency, mind you.
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