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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 1
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It's good to be king.
Starting to wonder what that trip to Mexico in March will be like.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 2
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The only thing I could have done to 'stop Trump' would have been to have moved to a swing state. Did you do that?
The argument that refusing to participate in a lesser evil makes you complicit in a greater evil is what is asinine and irrational. And the ranking of evils here is extremely relative. If you're an immigrant in the US on a visa, Trump is the greater evil. If you're a kid in Yemen hiding indoors from drone strikes, then you might not consider the impact of Hillary's state department quite so positively.
And for the record, I spent most of last year making this identical argument to conservative friends and family to explain to them that voting for Trump in order to 'stop Hillary' was not an acceptable option, and they should vote their conscience, i.e. third party. Since I know I convinced a couple of them, this very argument did more to stop Trump than my casting one vote in a non-swing state would have.
You're in the interesting position of feeling self-righteous about not standing on principle.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3138
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 3
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Steve De Young wrote:
| If you're a kid in Yemen hiding indoors from drone strikes, then you might not consider the impact of Hillary's state department quite so positively. |
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That's true. You'd rather be dead in a botched raid that was approved without proper review by Trump.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 4
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If your approach is going to be that Hillary was a perfect candidate and her campaign did nothing wrong, and that the problem is somehow people like me who didn't vote for Trump, I have bad news about your election outlook in 2018 and 2020.
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 5
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Trump won because he got more votes (at least where it mattered) than Hillary. Too bad. Blame's on those who voted for him. Start blaming those "wrong" non-Trump supporters will only make things worse.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 6
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Why're some here STILL debating the election??
In less than 48 hours, the GOP-controlled Senate has confirmed the former head of ExxonMobil as our Secretary of State, and repealed a key anti-corruption rule that ExxonMobil and the American Petroleum Institute have fought for years.
No backlash from shutting down the government in the past, no backlash from stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now this. Strictly the work of people who have no interest in justice or morality and who have no fear of electoral backlash because their voting base has lost their minds, and will support them forever as long as it sticks it to "the liberals".
-C!
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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the 40 million people with home mortgages, may find
themselves not being able to deduct their interest payments
any longer.... The blatant hatred, fanning of bigoted
flames and condemnation of entire peoples is serious
business, but I wonder how his supporters will swallow this
pill. THAT is some serious money on a 30 year mortgage.
You're welcome, middle class.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 8
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I would guess that a lot of Trump voters are below that middle-class line; they're struggling to make a living, and his snake-oil pitch about 'the little guy' trumps (sorry) any issues of misogyny, racism, or corruption.
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4178
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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Mario Ribeiro wrote:
| Start blaming those "wrong" non-Trump supporters will only make things worse. |
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I think the idea is to encourage people to put practicality over ideals in future elections. Such admonitions tend to trigger the self-righteous gene, but what can you do?
It drove me nuts in the run up to the election to see all the people who were speaking of not voting for or voting against their party's candidate "to put their party's feet to the fire." The mindset that it's better to have someone in office actively working against your ideals instead of someone who may not do enough in support of them is just ridiculous to me.
I understand voting your conscience, as long as you actually wanted one of the third party candidates to win, you truly didn't see a difference between the two candidates and/or you think Hillary would be doing just as much to garner protests as Trump is managing.
But anyone (particularly in a swing state) who sat this one out, is actively horrified by what is unfolding before us and is choosing NOW to try to do something about it deserves a swift kick up the backside on the way to their latest protest march. (Not as hard as the ones reserved for the people who weren't particularly enamored over Trump but wanted to "try something different" (which sadly includes most of my in-laws), but still...)
Charles Valderrama wrote:
| Why're some here STILL debating the election?? |
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Think of it as trying to gather Lessons Learned in support of the next one. :-)
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4178
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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Charles Valderrama also wrote:
| No backlash from shutting down the government in the past, no backlash from stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now this. Strictly the work of people who have no interest in justice or morality and who have no fear of electoral backlash because their voting base has lost their minds, and will support them forever as long as it sticks it to "the liberals". |
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The downside of turning politics into team sports, unfortunately.
The only way to get a proper functioning Government - that pulls in both directions but generally meets in the middle - is for bullshit like the Republicans have pulled over the last several years to actually hurt them in the polls. Instead, it works out, which means we'll be stuck with this BS anytime a Democrat gets elected. And if the Democrats start playing the game in the same fashion, then we're REALLY screwed.
And now I am WAY too depressed for a Friday. Think I'm going to go buy me some old comics...
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8841
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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Dave Phelps wrote:
| Think of it as trying to gather Lessons Learned in support of the next one. :-) |
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Bingo!
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 03 February 2017 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 12
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A wise voter casts their vote in the way that is most likely to bring about policies and laws which they favor. It's really that simple. Getting caught up in the candidates' personalities and/or trying to judge whether or not a candidate is "evil" is an emotional but unwise choice.
In this past election, anyone who wanted more progressive laws should have voted for Clinton, because voting for anyone else decreased the likelihood that progressive policy would be enacted. It's too bad that people fixate on personalities rather than viewing a vote as a way to influence policy, and as a result make voting choices that are against their own policy interest.
I think the biggest error Clinton made in her campaign was focusing too much on Trump's personality, rather than drawing emphasis on the policies he was going to pursue if elected.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 03 February 2017 at 2:40pm
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