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Peter Martin
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Posted: 15 January 2021 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Glad we agree!

Looks like he has more trouble with state prosecutors anyway, according to this NY Times article: LINK
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 15 January 2021 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

And he can’t pardon himself against that.
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 15 January 2021 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Just 5 more big sleeps!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

And let's say he is impeached for Insurrection following the 2020 Presidential Election.

•••

He’s already been impeached for this.

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Peter Martin
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Well, that is an interesting thing to discuss. 

Technically, heˋs been impeached for incitement of insurrection, specifically pertaining to the speech he gave on 6 January at the Ellipse in Washington, DC.

The point of the example was to elucidate possible differences in what he can or can't pardon himself and I could have used any hypothetical high crime or misdemeanour.

My example, was insurrection following the 2020 Election -- I think it is the repeated lie that the election was stolen that created the conditions for a violent assault on the capitol.

The House's articles of impeachement seem to focus to a large degree on his speech on 6 January, which I think it's hard to convict on. Trump can argue his words on 6 January could not possibly have caused people to plant pipe bombs, load their vans with molotov cocktails, etc. which were all premeditated acts, not things incited in the passion of the moment.

The articles of impeachment also cite the phone call to Brad Raffensperger and only mentions in passing with one line 'prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the the certification of the 2020 Presidential election'

It was this last bit that I think should have been the real focus. It was his repeated bollocks claims post-election that are more to blame than the speech itself on the day of the assault.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

And let's say he is impeached for Insurrection following the 2020
Presidential Election.
•••

He’s already been impeached for this.

****
Technically, heˋs been impeached for incitement of insurrection...

^^^^^^^^^

You’re working AWFULLY hard to agree with us.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Brian M: "He’s gonna go nuclear and declare martial law."

How insane is President Murder? He's still the president. He still has the codes. And being impeached does not prevent him from any of his presidential... well, "duties" is the word, although in HIS hands, they are tools of death.

He still has all those powers. And he still has the nuclear codes. I am completely ignorant of the process of initiating a nuclear attack, but I'll wager the reply to every objection is, "I am the President of the United States and your superior officer. Enter the codes and prepare for launch."

I do not mean this as a joke and I do not think it funny. President Murder has grudges against Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. He is easily deranged enough to send a missile to every one of those states. Or, say, North Korea, China, and Iraq? There's cause enough to be forced to believe that they ARE threats to the U.S. national security.

Or do the JCS stop him and we have to set up four firing squads? Or a Secret Service guard? This is complicated, and there's no easy way around it.

This worries me to sleep  far more often than I wish. How does the U.S. protect itself against an insane leader?
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

His launch codes are printed on a plastic card he is given each day. On that card, there are additional meaningless codes printed for an added layer of security. The president has to memorize each day where the correct codes are. Trump's laziness might be a protection.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Yes, he still has access to the codes, but the military has seen what he's like.  Even if he tries to start a nuclear war, he'll probably fail.  It's up to the military to go through with his orders and won't do it if they feel the order is unlawful.  At this point, they'd know for a fact that it's unlawful.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The president has unilateral authority to deploy nuclear weapons.

For a subordinate to fail to obey a confirmed order from the president to deploy these weapons is not out of the bounds of reason, but it would be an unlawful act.

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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

As for nuclear deployments and declarations of martial law - the San Francisco Chronicle is running an article indicating that Trump has essentially been neutered and Pence is currently running things behind the scenes as "acting" president.

We can but hope.

Marc

(edited to add: other news outlets are beginning to report this)


Edited by Marc Baptiste on 16 January 2021 at 7:24pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Marc, could you point me to the SF paper in question? I've done a cursory Google with no luck and I'd be interested to peruse.

Thanks!
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