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Brian Miller
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Posted: 19 September 2019 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

On the one hand you have a whistleblower saying Trump pressured Ukraine to interfere in the US election but on the other hand you have Trumpís lawyer saying Trump pressured Ukraine to interfere in the US election and I donít know who to believe.
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 20 September 2019 at 3:45am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I'm beginning to get the impression Trump might not be up to the job ;)
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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 20 September 2019 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

You've got to worry, as immune as Trump is to absolutely ANY criticism - he therefore stands a very good chance of winning re-election.

Marc
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 20 September 2019 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Marc B., I'm not sure Trump's sensitivity is important here. The sensitivity of Republican voters is key... how do they feel about criticisms against Trump?

I do not mean the blind flock; if Trump proposed big ovens and gas-filled showers, they'd back that. I mean those Republicans who still have some sense, and can come to the conclusion that critics of Trump, and factual evidence against him actually DO matter.

It might not be a lot, but a ten percent swing in 2016 would have made the difference. After 2018, I dare to hope - but that also relies on the Democrats constant devotion to the cause. The minute the Dems say, "I think we can ease up", we lose again.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 20 September 2019 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Itís not gonna matter. He's denying it. Trump-fucks will just think itís Democrats piling on him and love him even more. Congressional Republicans will believe it but will be to chickenshit to do anything about it and Trump will just sit there smiling knowing he got away with something else. God, I hate what this country has become.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

To think that all it took to TOTALLY expose our ďdemocracyĒ as a joke was a willingly corrupt President without a moral bone in his body....and an entire political party complicity turning a blind eye to his actions.   

And the Democrats?  Too concerned about winning the election at a later time than standing up for democracy today.   

Trump may not win reelection, but the damage he has done I fear is irreparable.  The Constitution needs to be rewritten in large chunks in order to prevent this kind of abuse of powers to EVER happen again. Rules only matter when the participants acknowledge them.  Right now the GOP has decided they have the ability to ignore everything that would hold them accountable and just keep on truckiní regardless of criticism or their potential place in history.  Well, if you are (re)writing the history books yourself, I suppose that really isnít a big deal after all....

If Trump wins reelection...and manages to go unpunished through 2 terms for his OBVIOUS CRIMES AND VIOLATIONS....the United States of America and everything we thought it was supposed to be is done and finished.  And itís deeply racist roots will have born the fruit from branches it took a Civil War and 60ís riots and protests to cut away.  Because this can ONLY happen because there are enough white Americans (either private citizens or elected officials) who are ok with it all.

I find myself praying for the resilience and determination of the NY state legal system.  They seem to be the only ones capable of touching this maniac.  Lord knows our Federal system is crippled (and corrupted) in this regard.

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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 David Allen Perrin wrote:
And the Democrats? Too concerned about winning the election at a later time than standing up for democracy today.



 QUOTE:
If Trump wins reelection...and manages to go unpunished through 2 terms for his OBVIOUS CRIMES AND VIOLATIONS....the United States of America and everything we thought it was supposed to be is done and finished.


You're criticizing the Democrats' abundance of caution while also explaining it. One thing that happened during the Kavanaugh hearings was that as soon as the Dems started going after him, the GOP circled the wagons and it went from "Is this guy right for the job" to "us vs. them."

Impeachment is a bullet you can only fire once. As things currently stand, the GOP would spend the hearings crying crocodile tears over how a bunch of sore losers are derailing the country, Trump would sail through the actual Senate vote and then what?

I honestly don't know what the right course of action is and it's a shame that practical considerations have to triumph over ideals, but when the party controlling 2.5 branches of Government decides that blatant corruption is a small price to pay to keep it that way (and hopefully get back to 3), there are significant limits as to what the party controlling the remaining .5 can do.    
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Fred J Chamberlain
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Impeachment process is one that those in office have an
ethical responsibility to enact, once they believe that
it is reasonably warranted. It is one of several checks
and balances that was put in place and, as with all too
many checks and balances.... has been lost to political
and financial greed.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Donald Joke Trump wrote:
My crimes canít  be investigated while Iím president.

My god. What more do we need? Heís just admitted heís committed crimes. 
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

|The congressional hearings conducted in the last few years have been a joke. The hearing with Corey Lewandowski four days ago would represent just a taste of what Republicans would do if impeachment was at stake. I have gone back and forth many times in the last year regarding the impeachment question and feel very much like Dave Phelps. Powerful people are ignoring the activities that promote democracy and allow it to survive. I think it is possible that irreparable damage has been done to the US Democracy, but Trump is only a small part of it all.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 9:28am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

@Dave Phelps

My problem is the belief that you canít do both (as Pelosi seems to think).

Stand up for democracy NOW!  Show the spine needed to fight against this garbage and then go out and win the damned election to prove that this country isnít the sham itís beginning to look like.

I would imagine a lot of rank and file Democrats might find it rather energizing to see the party in unison standing up hard to put Trumpís crimes out in the open and not allow his propaganda machine to paint his actions as Ďnothing burgersí.

I know I would be.






Edited by David Allen Perrin on 21 September 2019 at 9:28am
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 21 September 2019 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 David Allen Perrin wrote:
My problem is the belief that you canít do both (as Pelosi seems to think).


The concern is that making the attempt at one will hurt your chances at the other.


 QUOTE:
Stand up for democracy NOW! Show the spine needed to fight against this garbage and then go out and win the damned election to prove that this country isnít the sham itís beginning to look like.


It's a nice thought, and I think that's what they're trying to do - avoid the hot button terms and appearance of a witch hunt while also holding hearings to keep the issues in the public eye and gather evidence while you work on winning the next round of elections. But it's a long process.

At the same time, the Democrats have the simple problem that Trump has a much better propaganda machine than they do. Fox News, aside from a couple of the "hard news" guys, are pretty lockstep with Trump. Meanwhile, the mainstreamers feel obliged to report "both sides" as if they were equivalent positions. ("Are the Democrats just being sore losers? Our panel of experts will discuss it today on Meet the Press.")    

So they go for impeachment - Dem's are thrilled, GOP circles the wagons. GOP has the votes, so they stonewall the investigation in the House and McConnell either ignores it or goes straight to an up or down remove or no vote, which Trump wins. Trump's exonerated, his propaganda machine paints the whole thing as a politically-motivated hatchet job and the mainstream media allows for the possibility in the name of "being fair." You go to the elections and the Dems are demoralized, the Repubs are fired up, low information voters ignore the whole and Trump gets a second term, Repub's realize no one really gives a shit about blatant corruption as long as you say the right things, and everything gets worse.

Even if they did win and Trump was removed from office (they find a couple of Rep Senators willing to take the hit), you have President Pence and you STILL have a fired up GOP base while the Dems go straight back to complacency now that they've saved the day. So the Democrats stay at home because they don't find the nominee inspiring enough, the Repubs keep control and still realize that no one really gives a shit about blatant corruption as long as you say the right things, and everything gets worse.

Shit, I'd be hesitant, too.

Yes, impeachment is the right thing to do. But if it's not truly bipartisan, there are HUGE risks involved. An overabundance of caution might be the right amount in this case, no matter how frustrating it gets.
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