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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply


Or looking at it another way:  BLACK PANTHER made more in its first 4 days than JUSTICE LEAGUE made in its entire run.*

And it's already on track to potentially make more money than the first AVENGERS film.*

*(Domestically, at least.)




Edited by Shaun Barry on 19 February 2018 at 9:24pm
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
I liked the princess, who brought a lightness to a pretty heavy, humourless film.


Personally I'm glad that the humor was dialed down in this film, compared to other Marvel films. To me, that's the biggest "formula" that defines their films. All the characters are prone to witty one-liners at any time, no matter how serious they should be, and that undercuts the danger they're facing in certain situations. Like the big fight in Civil War, some of the jokes (*Let go of my Rhoady!" "We're still friends, right?") took me out of it. This is supposed to be former allies now forced to be on opposite sides, it should have been rough for all of them to have to do this, but it almost felt like a game, like they were all having fun fighting each other.  

So with BP, I felt the humor in it was just the right amount, it was during the good times, between people who are close to each other. But during the end, with the big fight, this could have easily been a typical Action Movie Fight, where the two were trading puns and insults back and forth. But T'Challa almost died, he's very nation was at risk, as well as millions of innocents across the globe if Killmonger's plan was carried out. So this was no time for jokes.

 Neil Lindholm wrote:
This movie had Black Panther as an afterthought, almost. Not saying that was a wrong choice but the film was about T'Challa, not the Black Panther.


Valid point, but as Michael Roberts said, BP is a unique character in that is both "superhero" and "King." In fact, the latter comes first. So with the major runs since Priest, they've often done a balancing act, in which he's Kingly duties are often as major storywise as his heroic adventures. Plus, this was basically an origin story. I'd compare it to Batman Begins, which is my favorite of the Nolan trilogy, he was more Bruce Wayne than "Batman" there too.

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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
T’Challa was brave young king searching for a broader future for his nation that reshapes future everyday.

•••

That doesn't sound like the T'Challa I know!

But it is the one I've known, for the past 20 years at least. 

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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Wallace Sellers wrote:
Someone I know who went to see the movie in Atlanta says that he, friends and and other moviegoers were given FIFTY SHADES tickets when they paid to see THE BLACK PANTHER. Make of that what you will.


Interesting. 

Years ago, early 90's, I remember there was a controversy going around that some theaters were supposedly deliberately giving people who bought tickets to various Black-made films the stubs to other mothers, meaning those other movie would get the credit for the sale. "Check your ticketstub" became a slogan. Spike Lee claimed he had fans telling him that with Malcolm X, and I've seen the claim made in the modern era regarding Tyler Perry movies. I personally experienced it once, around that time. There was a movie called Tresspas, starring Ice Cube and Ice T, I went with two friends and bought all the tickets, when we went in I noticed our tickers said some other movie, and we were about to go back to get them changed, but the man at the door just told us it didn't matter and we could go in, so we did. But then this controversy hit, it made me think if this deliberate or not. 

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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
Now that spoiler tags are up, what’s up with the Wakandan kids calling Bucky “White Wolf”? Random Easter Egg, or is he going to end up with a suit?


I noticed it too, and hoped it was just an Easter Egg, for those who know about the character. While I'm fine with the idea of the Hatut Zeraze, and like the way Ta-Nehisis Coates has brought then back, operating more as a Wakandan military Special Forcers unit, than former Secret Police turned mercenaries, I really don't need to see Hunter, T'Challa's White adopted brother, on screen. That was one of Christopher Priest's weaker additions to the BP mythos. 


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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 David Phelps wrote:
So faithful (and isolationist) W'Kabi turns traitor in the movie and Man-Ape and Malice become good guys. Okay, then


Yeah, I'm not crazy about the W'Kabi turn. With M'Baku, though, I'm glad that they portrayed him the way they did. As has been noted before, the "Man-Ape" identity is rather problematic today, in a way it might not have been during his original creation, so it felt like this was a good way to redeem him. He stole the show almost every scene he was in. 

And as someone else noted, the Malice concept wasn't that good in the first place. She was a stereotypical Scorned Woman. Glad that was dropped too.

 Dave Phelps wrote:
Not entirely sure what Everett Ross was doing there.


I'll tell you what I'm glad he was not doing there, and that's being the star of the movie, which he likely would have been if this film was made in the not too distant past. Hollywood's "conventional wisdom" would say that the film needed a White protagonist to make it palatable to White viewers. That is deliberately what Christopher Priest created him for, a POV character for White readers. I'm glad Coogler and co. didn't go down that route, and actually gave White viewers more credit than that, and trusted that just if you just focused on making a good movie, fans of all colors would be able to enjoy it.

I've noticed on my FB that among my White female friends who saw the film, the most common praises are about Shuri, Nakia and Okoye and the rest of the Doras. The fact that they were well-written fully dimensional female characters is what they loved, even if they aren't the same color as them. 


 David Phelps wrote:
Overall, It felt like Don MacGregor's Panther with a touch of Christopher Priest's gadgets, which is a good thing-


While I'm fine with McGregor and Priest getting praised, this film also took inspiration from Hudlin's run. He's the one who created Shuri and added her to T'Challa's family. And he's revamped the original concept of the Dora Milajae, from just two "Wives in Training", to an a full-on all-female military-like unit, who serve as royal bodyguards. The film also copied the new look of them from Hudlin's run, with the bald heads, body armor and weaves, although I don't know if that was Hudlin's idea, or John Romita Jr., the artist of Hudlin's opening arc, redesigned them himself. The nature of Wakanda's history, with the idea of the nation's technological advancement coming as a result of their centuries of isolation, also comes from Hudln's run. 

The "force-push" in T'Challa''s suit is a recently-added thing, coming from the current run by Coates. As one reviewer of the film online said, it's like the took some of the best parts from all of BP's solo runs and merged them together in this film. 


 David Phelps wrote:
The only real downside for me is that, for some reason, I couldn't help but see the formula this time. Not sure why.


Well, the general "formula" is there. And if you've seen all or most of the Marvel movies up to this point, you will likely notice it. Yes, it's an origin movie where the hero fights his doppleganger. Can't deny that. It was just done so much better the most of the previous films, that it felt natural, rather than as sticking to a pre-conceived plan.



 


Edited by Jabari Lamar on 20 February 2018 at 12:00am
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

They've used a lot of Avengers #87 I'm thinking. They could do worse. I remember the three issue run in Marvel Premiere and there were jerks in pointy hoods, ugh.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Yes, it's an origin movie where the hero fights his doppleganger. 

——

See, I’d argue it’s not an origin movie. Black Panther, as a superhero, is already fully formed, and it’s not about him learning how to be a hero. His struggle is with deciding what kind of king he wants to be. 
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
See, I’d argue it’s not an origin movie.


And I'd argue that that is semantics. As you say it is about him taking the throne and deciding what kind of King he's going to be, and as you noted in a previous comment, there's not much divide there, "the King stuff IS Black Panther stuff", so this is an "origin movie." 



Edited by Jabari Lamar on 19 February 2018 at 11:06pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

And I'd argue that that is semantics. As you say it is about him taking the throne and deciding what kind of King he's going to be, and as you noted in a previous comment, there's not much divide there, "the King stuff IS Black Panther stuff", so this is an "origin movie." 

-----

Sure, but in the context of superhero movies, "origin movie" has certain connotations and conforming to the formula of "this is how this person gets his powers and his costume and his name."

Call it origin movie all you like, but you'd only be misleading and dissuading people who are tired of origin movies.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
Sure, but in the context of superhero movies, "origin movie" has certain connotations and conforming to the formula of "this is how this person gets his powers and his costume and his name.

I believe I've explained my position well-enough. 

 Michael Roberts wrote:
Call it origin movie all you like, but you'd only be misleading and dissuading people who are tired of origin movie


For some reason I'm really not worried that anything I say is going to negatively impact this film's box office. 


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Doug Jones
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 12:37am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

If anybody who cared about such things asked me, I would tell them the film gives you everything you need to know about where the character comes from and how he came to be in less than ten cumulative minutes; the rest of the film is about where he and those around him are going.

But most people just ask me how many times I've seen it.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 1:12am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

But most people just ask me how many times I've seen it.

----

How many times have you seen it?
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 4:31am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Saw it today and wasn't too enthralled.  Something seemed lacking for me.  It was okay as a one-time-watch but I wasn't ready to see it again right away.

Too much Wakandan politics and not enough Black Panther kicking butt maybe.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

It's a third day later, and my enthusiasm for the movie shows no signs of
waning. (Maybe listening to the BLACK PANTHER ALBUM's "All The Stars" on
repeat has a little to do with that.) We'll be going back to see it a second time
this upcoming weekend.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I've never been the type to go to see a movie multiple times in the theater. Especially nowadays when I don't really like going to theater, because I hate crowds, and only go a 2-3 times year for really big films (BP was my first of this year, and Infinity War is the next one I plan to go see). But I'll be buying this on DVD as soon as that comes out so I can watch it over and over again at home.    
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

GREAT MOVIE ALL THE WAY AROUND!

Action, heart, humor, and it inspires you like great heroes should. Home run!

Been reading Black Panther since the mid-seventies and loved everything about how he was portrayed. Great casting all the way around.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

For me, the heart was the really striking part. There is a danger of excessive sentimentality when a movie tries to have "heart," but this one not only managed to avoid that, but in showing how corrosive cynicism and vengefulness can be (after all, the Bad Guy had a point), that it earned its high-mindedness.  This led to the only post-credits scene that managed to choke me up.

Top marks, all around.
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John Popa
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I enjoyed it overall. I liked the first part with the Wakandan world-building a lot more than the standard super hero stuff. The ninja fights tend to bore me to tears at this point as do car chases. There wasn't anything interesting about the action sequences. I thought M'Baku stole the show.

I would agree with the thought that it didn't feel like Black Panther was actually in the movie much but since everyone else was more interesting, I guess it didn't matter. In some ways, Black Panther himself was more interesting to me in "Civil War" where his code and honor put him in an antagonistic position, rather than as an unflinching hero.

I liked the more serious tone, for sure, though.   
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Yes, in many ways this felt more like an ensemble film, than specifically a solo superhero film. Almost like it should have been called "WAKANDA" rather than "BLACK PANTHER." But because all the characters were so good, it just worked. 

I had one friend complain that the film downplayed T'Challa's genius-level intellect, by making Shuri the tech-designer, that all the advances in his suit and weapons seem to come from her, as opposed to being self-invented.  And I can't really argue with that. 


Edited by Jabari Lamar on 20 February 2018 at 10:01am
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Daniel Gillotte
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Really liked this film. It is not my favorite Marvel film but it had a lot of powerful thematic/ political elements that were stronger than other Marvel movies. 

Shuri calling Everett "Colonizer", M'baku not allowing him to speak, Erik and his dad's reference to oppressed people and the African diaspora and Erik's last line were extremely powerful.

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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

 
Sure, but in the context of superhero movies, "origin movie" has certain connotations and conforming to the formula of "this is how this person gets his powers and his costume and his name."

*** 

I share this view - the film neither introduced BP or saw him get his "powers". He is BP right from the off. It's as much an origin film as Spider-Man: Homecoming is.
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