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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: November 23 2016 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I was disappointed when ENTERPRISE was announced. At first, I'd hoped that the show would feature the early adventures of NCC-1701, under the command of Robert April. But, no, it would instead concern the adventures of a never-mentioned "original" Starship Enterprise. Sigh.

I watched the pilot when it premiered, and was unimpressed. I have vague memories of watching bits and pieces of early episodes, often as mere background noise while I did other things. I paid more attention during the final season, when the show started to get sorta-kinda good. Fell in love with "In a Mirror, Darkly", since the TOS-fest on display in that episode was glorious, although it made the sting of ENTERPRISE not being a Captain April series that much worse.

Now, I may be a hardcore TOS fan, but I've still watched and enjoyed--to varying degrees--the other iterations. Of the 700-plus hours of STAR TREK in existence, I've seen the majority of it, be it in first-run or years-later repeats. ENTERPRISE is that one mostly-blank spot in my personal fan-experience. The show which left virtually no impression on me, save that this was the first real attempt to sex-up/action-up/modernize the franchise before Abrams came along. And, based on the show's cancellation alone, that attempt obviously failed. Even in 2001, it struck me as a show relying on played-out TREK tropes whilst simultaneously trying too hard to be fresh and modern. It was an odd mix, to say the least.

Recently, several hardcore-TREK-fan friends whose opinions I value have sung the praises of ENTERPRISE, while also freely admitting the show's flaws. HEROES & ICONS Channel has just finished a rerun cycle of the series, and started it over again. So, last week, I made the fateful decision to try and watch the series from start to finish. To give it a chance. To study it, good and bad.

I'm eight episodes in. First things first. As I surmised, 15 years ago, this is not a TOS prequel. This is full-on, warmed-over TNG-era stuff masquerading as a prequel. The same sort of technobabble. Uniforms which echo TNG and its spin-offs. Music which sounds exactly the same as the 600-odd hours of post-TOS TREK which preceded it. Bumpy-headed Klingons. "Phase pistols" instead of "phasers", "polarized hull plating" instead of "deflector shields", "shuttlepods" instead of "shuttlecraft", etc. And, there's lots of prequel-itis. 

There are things to like. Moments, ideas, scenes. I've grown to understand and admire the design of the NX-01, even though I hate the fact that it's named Enterprise, and that the design doesn't quite feel like a proper TOS precursor. The actors are by and large charming, but the characters aren't particularly strong--at least, not at this early stage. Scott Bakula is an incredibly likable guy, but the writing doesn't really play to his strengths. 

The stories don't have a lot of forward-thrust. They just sort of meander along, without a strong conflict/theme being set up at the start. Just compare the pre-credit teasers to those of TOS or TNG. TOS had teasers which were designed to set up a compelling mystery or threat from the very start of the story. ENTERPRISE's teasers are usually jokes, character bits, non-sequiturs, or would only make sense to fans who are already familiar with TREK. There's not usually much of a sense of setting up a problem which the following 50 minutes of episode will work to explore and resolve.

Aside from TOS being largely ignored, the worst aspect of the whole thing is the mass of missed opportunities. We're told in the pilot that Earth has already conquered hunger, war, and greed. What could have made this TREK series stand out from he others is actually SEEING how that happened. The depiction of the Vulcans as sorta-kinda antagonists could potentially have been an interesting way to explore the beginnings of the Federation, but it feels wrong. And, SO much could have been made of the dangers, discoveries, and triumphs of early space exploration. STAR TREK's version of THE RIGHT STUFF, essentially. 

ENTERPRISE is also now responsible for one of single worst, stupidest moments I have seen in any iteration of STAR TREK, ever. My jaw dropped.


Also, as noted, a lot of TREK tropes are already in place from the start of ENTERPRISE, albeit with more "primitive" names. And, telling us that the characters are a bit afraid of the transporter is far less interesting than, I dunno, actually SEEING it fail, from time to time. Too much technology and too many tropes from the "later" series are already in place, here.

So, far, I'm banging my head against the wall, praying to Crom that it gets better. And to grant me revenge, of course.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 12:21am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I find season 3 to be pretty good sci-fi television if you can blot out the larger issues of it being a Trek series and what its doing to the property and its continuity (no mean feat).  The fourth season, as beloved as it is by some, always came off extremely fan-fic-y to me.  Some of it is good fan-fic, some of it is lousy fan-fic, but its all sort of derivative and fannish.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Pull out now. It doesn't get any better.

First off, it was never going to be April, for the same reason that T'Pol replaced T'Pau in the original concept for the show. If you use an existing character or premise, you have to pay someone else. If you steal the idea and twist it just enough to call it your own, you get to pay yourself. See also: Jessica Jones.

Enterprise is dumb and predicated upon the basic premise that Kirk's television show never happened. Some version of it must have somehow, but the show itself, the episodes we watched, did not take place in that way. The bright colors, the technology, the story logic. None of it translates to what Berman placed before and after it. Berman said that he was beholden to the film series and that was it. The television show was an ongoing annoyance and an embarrassment to him and the franchise in general. Roddenberry's message was of no interest to him. The stories were dumb. You can't just fix a planetary culture like that. Give me a break. 

There was an article in TV Guide prior to the show's launch in which the new ship was shown. I liked it and still do, but it is not a logical progression from that to the ship we know. The interiors I did not like, since that was not the "submarine feel" we were promised. Berman said in the article that he wanted this new show to feel action-oriented, character-focused, and gritty in a way none of his other shows had before.

And then he hired back all the same writers and designers.

The same tired, played-out, unoriginal bunch of mediocrities came back to regurgitate exactly the same garbage they'd been spitting up for years on all those shows Berman supposedly didn't want this one to be anything like. Literally the second episode is a holodeck malfunction. There are Borg. There are Ferengi. There are Pakleds, for God's sake. Pakleds who clearly got into space before we did, because we humans are just that lame. Archer in particular is pathetic, pleading and begging to let out of the sandbox to go play with the rest of the kids on the playground. Vulcans are just jerks. There was clearly supposed to be some spark between Archer and T'Pol. It never clicked. For that matter, neither did her chemistry with Trip, but it was marginally less awful than her scenes with Bakula. God, those characters were shallow and unbearable.

Nothing about the show except one of two of the performances is any good whatsoever, and those performances are severely undercut by sabotaging storylines that lead the characters into one idiotic decision after another. Nothing felt real. Everything was manufactured and tediously so at that. It was all so pat, so trite, so uninspired. We had seen all of it before. 

And oh, God, that awful, stupid song... "Faith of the heart..." As opposed to what? Faith of the liver, perhaps? The spleen? Wow, that song sucks. I would avoid the show forever just to never hear the song again. To accomplish this, I also don't watch "Patch Adams."

Don't put yourself through any more of it, Greg. Your post looks copied and pasted from some other site, so if you're doing this as a blog or something, fine, more power to you, but if you can do something else instead, I would recommend that.


Edited by Brian Hague on November 24 2016 at 12:34am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 1:15am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Your post looks copied and pasted from some other site, so if you're doing this as a blog or something, fine, more power to you, but if you can do something else instead, I would recommend that.
+++++++++

Copied and pasted from my tablet's Notepad, actually. My browser keeps crashing, and I didn't want to risk losing what I'd written by typing my thoughts out here, directly.

While I can't disagree with that...spirited...assessment, I must continue. As I have often noted, I find value in studying failures as much as successes. Also, I might just be a masochist. Either way, I look forward to reporting my progress.  

At the very least, the show will make good background noise for my TOS-era model-building hobby, if I end up being unable to focus my full attention upon it. So far, there's been a lot of boring.

Also, I find myself using everything wrong with ENTERPRISE as a mental springboard for daydreaming about what a proper TOS prequel could actually be.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 2:12am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I hated the first two seasons but thought it got interesting once Manny Coto came on board for season 3 - he had Archer do some interesting (and pretty terrible) things during the Xindi war.

However, at no point did those stories that I found interesting speak to me as STAR TREK. Interesting, yes, STAR TREK, no.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Enterprise and Voyager share equal billing.When it comes to personal Trek disappointment.

With both series I liked the ship design and the Captain. Besides Janeway the only other character I cared about was the Doctor. I disliked everyone else. 

With Enterprise I really liked Trip and T'pol. Archer, Trip and T'Pol had good chemistry. Not nearly as good as with Kirk,Spock and McCoy. But much more likable a unit than were on TNG and Voyager. 

I wasn't disappointed that it was Archer. I had no affinity for April. 

It's finally season was easily the best of the series. It's a shame that the series couldn't be more like that. The biggest disappointments for me was the whole temporal cold war idea.  Also that we didn't get to see the Romulan War.
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John Byrne
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

One of the things I find annoying in some comic fans is their knee-jerk resistance to prequels. Earlier adventures of the characters are not permitted on the grounds that they have not been mentioned before. (These are the fans who seem genuinely convinced that we're all working from some kind of guidebook that lays out the whole history of the characters.)

ENTERPRISE seemed designed from the start to bring out that kind of reaction in even the most tolerant of fans. The show was so determined to eclipse TOS, giving Archer and his crew moments Kirk and Co. had already had. (Or that confused what was known -- the show frankly lost me with the lumpy Klingons in the premiere episode.)

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

What little I saw of ENTERPRISE didn't appeal to me. I am a fan of VOYAGER, I think it is underrated.

ENTERPRISE lacked that special something. The characters didn't seem like they were excited to be first into space. They seemed to have the same enthusiasm that I have when I pop to the corner shop to buy a pint of milk.

It became a chore to watch, I think I got as far as halfway through Season 2. At that point, I was clock-watching during the episodes. And before TIVO and catch-up services, and given I didn't have a video recorder, I was having to be around every Sunday afternoon to watch it on Channel 4. I just lacked the desire after a bit.
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John Byrne
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

VOYAGER was the only later iteration of TREK that came anywhere close to capturing the real feel of TOS. Unfortunately, for many, TNG was where STAR TREK started, and VOYAGER did not fit that mold.

TNG was very much off-model, in many ways a rethink rather than a relaunch (much akin to STAR WARS after the original), but it became the model, and TOS was pushed increasingly into the background. Didn't the first episode suggest hardly anyone even remembered Kirk?

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Brian Hague
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I like the idea of a proper TOS prequel, but we have some idea of what that would be like already, especially if we focus on the Romulan War era. That would be a space travel show unlike any other, including TOS. Just not being able to talk with the other ship and bring their commander up onscreen would alter the dynamic of the program almost entirely. No transporters. Likely no shuttles, so no heading down to the planet for some freestyle exploration... It would be a very claustrophobic undertaking. I wonder if viewers would stay with it or how the stories could unfold under such limitations. 

Would they tether a landing craft to the main one to allow for surface missions? Have to move through a Jeffries tube-style airlock between the two craft to go down to the planet? If there was no warp speed back in those times (Jose Tyler seemed really excited about the "time barrier" having been recently broken), then how did we ever get far enough out to war against the Romulans in the first place? We assume they came to us, spoiling for a fight, but how then would a pre-warp people win against such advanced technology, especially against a culture that takes over lesser planets as a matter of course?

That would have been a hundred years before Kirk and co. If we only go back, say, twenty years to April's era, we get something a lot more like what we know from TOS, with perhaps fewer trips through the "materializer," or risking fewer men on such missions. An overall smaller crew of 230 or so. Gooseneck hood technology. Less color. Women onboard still being a weirdly new-fangled concept. "I still can't get used to having a woman on the bridge. No offense, Number One." There could be a light-hearted episode where the women who are assigned to the ship stage a "mini-rebellion," all deciding to adopt the latest iteration of the Starfleet uniform, the mini-skirt, while the Captain outright forbids them and petitions Starfleet, excuse me, "Space Central" to rethink their progressive take on fashion. Think "Mudd's Women" but with every woman aboard having that sort of effect on the men...

Of course, a prequel show wouldn't really be like that. It would reflect modern concepts of workplace interaction and do as we all do with those backwards-seeming moments on TOS; just try to smile through them and maybe shake our heads a bit. April's command was only ever of minor interest to me. I was watching a vampire movie not long ago with Michael Gough and thought he might have been an interesting take on April; more bureaucratic and "Let's try it by the book first and see if that works" than Kirk or the others. Not reticent or unimaginative really, just an officer who believes in the service and its policies and procedures. Plus, you'd have the ongoing romance angle with the ship's doctor. I'm picturing that with a sort of Bob Newhart/ Suzanne Pleshette: The Early Years vibe... I'd tune in to watch that show. Come to think of it, Bob Newhart in command of a starship is a fun concept all on its own. "Uh, H-hello, Space Central? Come in, Space Central..."

On a certain level, I assumed we were watching Kirk's missions because they we unusual and he dealt with things better than the average starship commander. A lot of the other spaceships under other commanders got blown up real good or suffered some other catastrophic fate. If everyone's as sharp as Kirk, then Kirk seems a bit less sharp. How would that jerk Bob Wesley have dealt with Balok or the Metrons? How would the stodgy Commodore Stone have been to work for? A prequel series would almost demand a different command style than we've seen before, as we saw with Picard, Sisko, and Janeway. What would Jack Lord or Lloyd Bridges have done in the role of Captain? Could we get someone like that today to see what it would be like? What's David Caruso doing these days? :-)

Playing with prequel ideas turns out to be a good deal of fun after all. What were your thoughts on the topic, Greg? Everyone else?

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John Byrne
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I don't know the canon on this, but it seems to me the Romulan war would have to have been very short. Otherwise advancing technology would have quickly found a way around the communications difficulties.

Remember, we went into World War II with propellors and came out of it with jets.

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James Woodcock
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

It's even more stark than that JB. We went in with propellers and came out with the atomic bomb. 6 years!

Edited by James Woodcock on November 24 2016 at 3:37pm
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply


I will give credit to ENTERPRISE in that I found the cast to be one of the strongest and most likable ensembles since the TNG years.

But the show itself was just more of the same, another trip to the same well with too many of the same minds behind the weakest episodes, seasons & series of TNG, DS9 and VOYAGER.

I never got hooked... gave up after the first 3 or 4 episodes... tried again every so often when they claimed they were going in a new, different direction, and never cared for those episodes, either.

At this point, I have no interest in attempting any revisit to this particular series.


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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: November 25 2016 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

TNG was very much off-model, in many ways a rethink rather than a relaunch (much akin to STAR WARS after the original), but it became the model, and TOS was pushed increasingly into the background. Didn't the first episode suggest hardly anyone even remembered Kirk?
++++++++

That troubled first season of TNG, in particular, is absolutely THE MOTION PICTURE 2.0. There's a direct line to be drawn from the 1970s gap between TOS and the movies (with Roddenberry buying his own hype, and David Gerrold--writer of the TNG show bible--rethinking a lot of the basics of TOS in THE WORLD OF STAR TREK and elsewhere), the aborted PHASE II series (where a lot of the groundwork for TNG would be laid), and THE MOTION PICTURE.

Basically, after Roddenberry was kicked upstairs for the post-TMP movies, he went right back to what he was doing once he began developing TNG. A rethinking of STAR TREK. The perfect, utopian future, with a emphasis on sci-fi procedural storytelling and technobabble. A nonhuman, emotionless character who would try to become more human (PHASE II's Xon, followed by TNG's Data). An executive officer and an empathic alien who were once lovers (Decker/Ilia and Riker/Troi). A first officer being groomed for his own command, with the Captain serving more as The Old Man who would command fewer landing parties/away teams (PHASE II's Kirk/Decker, and TNG's Picard/Riker dynamic).

Be it out of spite for being booted out of the movies, or perhaps merely wanting TNG to stand on its own, references to TOS (aside from McCoy's cameo in the pilot) were kept to a minimum, at first. Kirk's Enterprise was mentioned in "The Naked Now" (itself a terrible reworking of "The Naked a Time"), but Picard didn't exactly utter Kirk's name with breathless reverence. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: November 25 2016 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I like the idea of a proper TOS prequel, but we have some idea of what that would be like already, especially if we focus on the Romulan War era. That would be a space travel show unlike any other, including TOS. Just not being able to talk with the other ship and bring their commander up onscreen would alter the dynamic of the program almost entirely. No transporters. Likely no shuttles, so no heading down to the planet for some freestyle exploration... It would be a very claustrophobic undertaking. I wonder if viewers would stay with it or how the stories could unfold under such limitations. 
+++++++

This makes me wonder--the history laid out in "Balance of Terror" works perfectly fine, in that context. But, would it be feasible to show those events in a concrete fashion? Wouldn't the lack of any face-to-face (or visual) contact with the Romulans severely hamstring storytelling and drama, especially for a theoretically-lengthy storyline?

Not to say that it couldn't be done well while working within those limitations, of course.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: November 25 2016 at 12:12am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Of course, a prequel show wouldn't really be like that. It would reflect modern concepts of workplace interaction and do as we all do with those backwards-seeming moments on TOS; just try to smile through them and maybe shake our heads a bit. April's command was only ever of minor interest to me. I was watching a vampire movie not long ago with Michael Gough and thought he might have been an interesting take on April; more bureaucratic and "Let's try it by the book first and see if that works" than Kirk or the others.
+++++++++++

Of course, we'll be soon seeing a modern-prequel take on the "Cage" era, with DISCOVERY.

As for April, the thing that most intrigues me is that a proper prequel would feature new adventures aboard the Enterprise--the REAL Enterprise, back when she was brand-spankin' new. We know very little of Bob and Sarah April, and the rest of the crew would be a total blank slate. LOTS of potential, there. The only "givens" would be that the ship and the Aprils would have to survive into Kirk's time. Beyond that, anything goes.

As an aside, I really liked JB's depiction of the April-era Enterprise in CREW, and wanted to see more of it!
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John Byrne
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Posted: November 25 2016 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Of course, we'll be soon seeing a modern-prequel take on the "Cage" era, with DISCOVERY.

••

Everything I have seen of DISCOVERY puts me off. Now, a final nail in the coffin. I was not aware it was set in the Pike era. Yea. that left-over PHASE II ship design slips in there just seamlessly, doesn't it? :-ppppp

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John Byrne
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Posted: November 25 2016 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

It's even more stark than that JB. We went in with propellers and came out with the atomic bomb. 6 years!

••

But that's not a good analogy, is it? What do propellors have to do with bombs? For that to work, we'd have to say we started with conventional HE and ended with the atom bomb.

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Marten van Wier
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Posted: November 26 2016 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I pretty much have my fill of prequels(or reboots for that matter).
And it is honestly not because I do not want to give them a chance, it is more often that that they always never live up to the hype.

There have been good 'prequels' but often not by the same company or studio that produced the original.
Star Wars for example. Back when the Phantom Menace was announced I was more than willing to give it a chance, I was hoping that it would use some of the elements from the old Expanded Universe such as certain type of ships, a war between the old Republic and the Clone Masters, and a young Ben Kenobi meeting a hotshot Republic pilot named Anakin Skywalker during these events.

But when I watched the movie very quickly doubt started to creep in, and honestly not because of Jar Jar Binks alone.

Around the same time Lucasarts together with Bioware released a game set in the past of Star Wars named Knights of the Old Republic, taking place around forty of fifty years after a comic series published by Dark Horse that was also somewhere around this time.
I recall not liking the comics very much because I thought a lot of the art and the designs were just plain ugly.

But KOTOR whose artists instead took inspiration from the original trilogy made in a world much more in that style regarding settings and technology (perhaps overdoing it a little).
The storyline also sounded a lore more exciting, a period of turmoil as the old Republic just experienced a series of conflict with the Mandalorians, only for a civil war between the Jedi to follow it up.

No young kid as a main character with a very wacky sidekick getting into all kinds of hi-jinks, or space politics about trade and taxation. (I still have no damn clue what the invasion of Naboo was about or how it played into the mentioned politics. Isn't invading a sovereign state with a military force and the intention of remaining permanently present an act of war?)


Its follow up, Star Wars KOTOR The Sith Lords was also excellent, if sadly unfinished. But it took Star Wars into a new interesting direction and gained enough fan support that they decided to finish the game as the developer had intended.

(Dark Horse also published an excellent prequel comic series set before KOTOR1 during Mandalorian wars)

As prequels to the original Star Wars trilogy the KOTOR games were a lot more exciting and expanded its universe and history then the Prequels did. And they actually explained what a Sith is which even the movies never mentioned.


And now lets take Star Trek. Star Trek Voyager is in its seventh and final season and has slowly been declining in story telling since Season 4/5 (which I did in general enjoyed), a new TNG movie is planned Nemesis of which the spoilers already raise a few eyebrows (clone of Picard), and Berman and Braga are already so focused on their next Star Trek series, which will not be "Star Trek" but simply "Enterprise" to apparently distance itself from the other series, that neither of them are that much interested in working on Voyager any more. (I think Braga had already removed his name as a producer)

Well in interviews and articles Berman and Braga already mention that they want to get back to the 'roots' of Star Trek (not sure if they mentioned the original show or not), back to when space was all new.
They wanted to do a show about the first human mission of exploration, and the people on this mission would be less experienced and prepared than the crew in the eras after this show would be.

But already some plot lines are mentioned that make long time Trekkers wonder if B&B really know about the period they are going to set their show.
For example first human-Klingon contact will be depicted. (some of the fans strongly believed that the first contact between humans and Klingons would be long after the Romulans, it just set before the seventy years of cold war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire)

The producers also mention that one of the antagonists will be a species called the Suliban (now remember this was around the time when 9/11 was still quite fresh in everyone's memories, Suliban = Taliban), who are into genetic engineering and are committing terrorist attacks.
They are also supported by a sponsor from the future who is supplying them with technology and information.

So that already raised a few red lights. But still fans are willing to give it a try, hoping that it will improve on the mess that Voyager had become in the last years.

Well I watched the first Season, and after the 'okay' pilot episode, I rapidly grew bored with the series as a lot of the episodes were very average and the main characters were not very interesting and in general very poorly written.

I heard the stories on the forum about that we should give it a chance and that new Star Trek series usually get better in the second or third season. But when the producers and a lot of the writers have been working on Star Trek for more than fourteen years now you would expect they would have somehow gotten the hang of it.

Just so much of these episodes did not have much of a plot to begin with or were recycled from TNG.
And I honestly don't want to sound like a canon hound but was the appearance of the Ferengi now really necessary?

Funny story about the Borg appearing in Enterprise.At the time I was on the TrekBBS and when the series aired there was this go-at-each-other by the supporters of the series and the critics of the series.

One critic after seeing the Ferengi episode now no longer ruled it out that the Borg would make an appearance on Enterprise sooner or later. One of the supporters of the series quickly responded with that that could never happen, that even the producers had sort of made it clear that the Borg would not make any appearance before the episode "Q Who".
He so strongly believed that that he was even willing to bet a hundred bucks on it.

Well Season 2's Regeneration came along and boy did that supporter have to eat crow. I am still curious if he ever paid that hundred bucks to the critic who first suggested that this could and probably would happen.

And on another note: I still want a freaking toy of the Borg assimilated transport.

Anyway the series continued to loose audience (but then again the number of watchers have been dropping since TNG's best seasons), and Enterprise was retooled, now having the mission to stop some species that threatens Earth that already managed to make one preemptive strike.

* * * * *

Now actually I could see this as a setup concept for a Star Trek series set after Voyager and Nemesis.Federation worlds such as Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, as well as the main worlds of the Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian and so on being attacked by alien juggernauts that suddenly emerge from a wormhole above these worlds.
Starfleet and the military forces of the other civilizations/species manage to defeat these automated warmachines but the wormholes remain open.

Ships sent through the wormholes discover that it leads to a part of space previously unknown to all space faring species.
The governments and military command of all attacked civilizations realize that sooner or later the juggernaut builders will send new weapons through the wormholes to attack again and most likely finishing off the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire and so.
A large portion of their fleets were already decimated during the first attack.

To find out who sent these automated warships/weapons each of the Alpha Quadrant powers sends a fleet of their own to locate the builders and to find out why they send these weapons, and stop them from doing so again.
At the same time all these ships will also explore this strange new frontier and make contact with its space faring civilizations.

The first three seasons could have been about the various crews as they search for the builders while running into new species and civilizations, discovering new wonders and horrors.
And the end of the third season long running arc involving the builders could be finished in a major two part episode.

The remaining seasons would be about the aftermath,what the civilizations of the Alpha Quadrant will do now that the threat is gone and there is a lot of rebuilding to do, not to mention the chaos they may have caused with defeating the builders who controlled this region for a long time, and their technology and weapons now in the hands of various species.

Ah well, I can dream

* * * *

Well Season 3 of Enterprise was liked by some people but it was still not enough to really save the show. (I have no idea what Season 3 is like, I never watched it as I did not care for the whole Xindi stuff)

When Season 4 came it was already clear that Enterprise would be canceled.
I am not sure if that may also have resulted in Manny Coto getting to helm this season but I know that suddenly a lot of the story lines became more interesting and having more of a Star Trek feeling even if it is sometimes a bit fan fiction like.

The little two or three episode arcs which would be mentioned or followed up in later episodes also helped to make this season a lot better, and it opened the question why Enterprise could not have been more like this from the start.

It still does fix some of the stupid decisions or writing that sometimes happened but if I would have to suggest one season of Enterprise to watch I would suggest season 4.
(some would suggest season 3 instead but one reason why I would strongly urge not to is the whole Trip-T'Pol massage stuff to help Trip overcoming the feeling of guilt regarding his dead sister, not to mention T'Pol undergoing Pon Farr)

Oh, btw I know a lot of people liked “In a mirror darkly”, but I would much rather have had another two parter in the main universe.


Discovery.Well first thing, I really do not like the ship design. I have seen fan made starships from the Five Year Mission that are so much more nicer to look at than the Star Trek Phase 2 Enterprise.
It really has a kit bash feel, putting parts of different models together to create something that looks a bit like a cross between a TMP era starship saucer and something that looks rather Cardassian.

This thing doesn't feel at all older than the Constitution. Actually itl ooks more like something from the old FASA Star Trek RPG books and I was really happy that those were never made canon because they also had a very kit bashed feel to them. (just check out the Starfleet and Klingon starship designs)

Second, I really really have my doubts about the mindset of the people producing this show.
Star Trek should of course be progressive and inclusive, but those have become such dirty words since they are handled by activists whose idea of progress in censorship and thought policing.

When it was mentioned that there would be a homosexual oriented crew member my first thought was “That is this character's selling point? Not perhaps being a brilliant scientist, excellent engineer, or outstanding navigator who happens to be homosexual? Also, is this mentioned in order to draw in people from the LGBT crowd?” It feels a bit cheap to be honest even if I do not really have a problem with various sexual orientations being more common and less of an issue.Truth be told I am not even that interested in story lines that focus on heterosexual relationships, I want to see the human adventure in space and the mysteries and wonders it holds.

As for being about a historical incident that was mentioned before in Star Trek,after having read so many Star Trek books that focus on 'historical events' of the Star Trek universe, going into detail on what was mentioned as a note or background detail I really am not interested any more on what the latest writer's take on “The battle of something something” is.

 * * * * *

Everything I have seen of DISCOVERY puts me off. Now, a final nail in the coffin. I was not aware it was set in the Pike era. Yea. that left-over PHASE II ship design slips in there just seamlessly, doesn't it? :-ppppp

* * * * *

Could you perhaps mention all of your reasons why you do not like what has been mentioned about Discovery so far as a series?
I am honestly interested in reading your thoughts.



Edited by Marten van Wier on November 27 2016 at 10:10am
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James Woodcock
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Posted: November 27 2016 at 3:41am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

But that's not a good analogy, is it?
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Good point
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Steve De Young
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Posted: November 27 2016 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

The problem I typically have with prequels is that they tend to follow one of two paths.  Either 'everything you know is right', and so everything just sort of plays out roughly the way you imagined it would (although sometimes my imagining was more interesting), or 'everything you know is wrong', in which case it proceeds to undermine the original at every turn, ala Enterprise.

Something like X-Men: Hidden Years is different in that that is more a question of filling a gap in which we honestly don't know very much of what happened, so it avoids the dilemma above.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: November 28 2016 at 5:49am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I didn't watch "Enterprise" faithfully, but sometimes it felt a bit as if I were reading a Superboy or Legion story. There were interesting elements, bits, and pieces, and there were characters who could get hurt or even die - but not Superboy. It was an absolute given that Superboy would come out fine... so any stories about danger to Kal-El were ridiculous.

Same with "Enterprise." We KNEW the Federation would last, we knew that anything involving races we already knew were already planned out, and races we DIDN'T know would be swept aside; probably by the series end.

Obviously that's not an exact comparison, but to me, it had the same feel; nothing significant is going to change. But put in life threatening drama ANYHOW.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: November 28 2016 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Enterprise was a science fiction show, and specifically one from this group of creators, so it really didn't shy away from putting its people in life-threatening situations. This is the same franchise that put Voyager through a "Year in Hell" and tediously destroyed the Enterprise-D on multiple occasions. But there was always a nearby temporal anomaly to set things right again by the end. How would Picard and his crew have fared if those things weren't waiting around every corner? I'm pretty sure they blew up Archer's ship a time or two as well, but y'know, with a Temporal Cold War, the anomalies come built right in.

Enterprise started off as a low-wattage fizzle with no feats of derring-do on the part of our heroes and nothing at stake. The producers tried to right this during the third season by having an alien attack on the Earth itself that had to be avenged and further attacks prevented. The bad guys cut off Florida! I think most guys wince a little thinking about that moment where they "sever the penisula..." I think we were supposed to be really mad they killed Trip's sister as well. I wasn't, but y'know, I wasn't going to miss Florida either. 

The actor who played Trip learning something about varying his line readings would have gone a long way towards selling the death of the sister, but no, it was still that same la-de-da cornpone rhythm to every single line he read for four years. Seriously, the man was no James Doohan or even a Walter Koenig.

The show TRIED to give us drama and disaster, but it just never worked. I didn't care about those characters. I did not care if Malcolm Reed's feelings were hurt by having Space Marines permanently aboard. I didn't care that Hoshi was... whatever. At first she was supposed to be scared, right? And didn't want to really go? But the Berman edict of professionalism in the face of the fantastic was in full force. "No one react! Your character wouldn't react, so you don't react!" This effectively made everyone a blase, seasoned space veteran which left the "space boomer" Travis with nothing whatsoever to do. 

The show would have been a kick if the untrained civilian crew freaked out every time an alien ship fired at them and Archer had to try to maintain order while Travis slid from station to station, cool and collected, doing what needed to be done. Let the imperfect humans of this time period be imperfect. But the creators couldn't imagine such a thing. They knew how Starfleet personnel behaved, and these men and women, THESE were the PROTOTYPES for all Starfleet personnel to come, putting an even higher degree of sober responsibility and suffocating lack of interest onto them. You just wanted to hit your head against the screen watching every tone-deaf, undramatic situation and decision made previously in the franchise play out again and again and again...


Edited by Brian Hague on November 28 2016 at 9:42am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: December 01 2016 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Oh, hey! A dozen episodes in, and I finally get one that comes within hailing distance of being sorta-kinda good, and features something other than bland characters blandly doing bland things! 

That being said, "Dear Doctor" is a blatant ripoff of TNG's "Data's Day", with a dash of "The Cloud Minders" thrown in. Some strong characterization (courtesy of John Billingsley, who gives Dr. Phlox a decent amount of charm and wit), and an ethical dilemma in the classic TREK mode, though.

Unfortunately, the episode grinds to a halt at the end, what with Archer deciding to condemn an entire race to death, rather than provide a cure--which has been found--to the disease that's killing it. And waxing philosophic about how the Federation will need to develop a "directive" in order to govern contact with pre-warp planets. This notion being presented in the clunkiest, most prequel-y way possible.


Sigh.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: December 01 2016 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

This makes me wonder--the history laid out in "Balance of Terror" works perfectly fine, in that context. But, would it be feasible to show those events in a concrete fashion? Wouldn't the lack of any face-to-face (or visual) contact with the Romulans severely hamstring storytelling and drama, especially for a theoretically-lengthy storyline?
---------------------------------------------------------
They gave this a shot in the novels.  There was an Enterprise: Romulan War series.  I thought it was, on the whole, better than most of the show, but its very very fan-ficy.
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