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Steve De Young
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Posted: 20 January 2017 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The only people that do 13 episode series is Netflix Amazon and Fox
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And FX.  And HBO.  And Showtime.  And Starz.  And AMC.  And...and...and...
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 20 January 2017 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Don't confuse the issue with the facts. lol. 

Would a nice tight 13 part story arc be an interesting way to see a Star Trek show sure. But I stand by my point that there are a lot of shows out there that still do 26 episodes. 13 is more of a cost consideration than anything. If Show X suddenly tanks then they don't have to order that other 1/2 season. 

The fact that they couldn't come up wiht 26 compelling plots tells me more about the writers being burned out on trek than anything else. If you have no ideas quit the show and write something else or take a sabbatical. Not well we are 10 minutes short lets add a some hot vulcan massage. 

/end rant. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 20 January 2017 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The proliferation of shorter, arc-based shows doesn't really apply, I think. Just comparing an episode of ENTERPRISE to TOS or even one of the earlier spin-offs, ENTERPRISE episodes typically feel like...less. Less plot, less character, lower stakes. Things happen, then more things, happen, then it's over. There's a distinct lack of momentum. 
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 21 January 2017 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I always felt I could skip the middle 3rd of any episode and not miss much. 
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 22 January 2017 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Twilight-- Change the future to protect the past. As I have made it to season 3 episode 8. I have begun to appreciate Jolene Blaylock, she really does give it her all and really ads something. The rest of the cast could be cardboard cutouts, really.  

That she didn't get any other roles to see what she could do is really too bad. 


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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 23 January 2017 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I thought of this question yesterday but I forgot to post it - Is Star Trek Enterprise worth remembering? Or should Star Trek Enterprise be preserved in continuity and be referred to in future Star Trek series as established history?

Though some people may think because I praised Enterprise for high production values regarding visual effects and backgrounds that i find the show more imaginative (just its looks), and though I like "Regeneration" (the Borg, my favorite ST antagonist), and a large portion of Season 4, I feel that the series is more of a burden to the franchise than helping expand it further.

It seriously messed with the timeline, introducing historical developments and events that would never be mentioned again despite that some of them could have played a role (Earth being attacked by the Xindi, the long term conflict between the Vulcans and the Andorians, the mentioned Borg appearance)
Heck complete species apparently disappeared after Enterprise such as the Denobulans and various "species of the week" which territories are well within range of human space.

Great material perhaps for the fan fiction and book writers to play with but for the audience that only watches television this is all basically a waste.

I guess the question would probably have been better if I wrote it as "Did Star Trek need a prequel?"

Well that is definitely a no as I honestly don't think people needed to know where things like the term M-class planet came from.
First contact with the Andorians, the Tellarites, Orions, and the upcoming Romulan Wars would probably have been of interest to the fans but the show only spend only little time on that.

So I really think that it would be better if Star Trek Enterprise on the long run was declared non canon. (I am not even sure if it was necessary to declare Star Trek The Animated Series canon)

A question to Mr Byrne, how would you have done the Federation-Klingon Empire first contact?


Edited by Marten van Wier on 23 January 2017 at 2:33pm
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 23 January 2017 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I don't think much of Enterprise was so unsalvagable that it would be considered a 'burden' to the franchise. Even the critique of 'Aliens/Species of the week' disappearing after one use could be applied to every show in the franchise. Enterprise became too beholden to the backstory of the Next Gen portion of the franchise that they lost focus on the elements of TOS that may have been worth revisiting (at least until the 4th season, when apparently someone came on staff that had some affection for TOS). Everything from ships graphics to plot-pacing to background music ended up looking like an 18 year blur.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 23 January 2017 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Amazingly, ENTERPRISE is still canon for the Abrams films, which is insane if you subscribe to the idea that TOS and all the later iterations were essentially overwritten by NuTREK (rather than the "branching" of NuTREK into a parallel universe, which is NOT how time-travel in STAR TREK works).

One of the biggest problems with ENTEPRISE is that which befalls many prequels--the creators want to push the envelope in terms of seeing new characters/aliens/technology, and taking advantage of advances in visual effects and filmmaking techniques. Unfortunately, the end result is a prequel that seems slicker than the original, and features a ton of characters, technology, and ideas which have somehow disappeared, by the time of the original iteration.


I've occasionally dabbled with the idea of a chronological STAR TREK watch-through. I'd never actually do it, of course, but...how would it play? Watch ENTERPRISE, then TOS, TAS, the movies, TNG, DS9, VOYAGER, and then NuTREK. 

You'd only understand who Riker and Troi (from "These Are The Voyages...") are once you get to the first season of TNG. You'd only get the backstory on the Defiant from "In a Mirror, Darkly" when you get to "Mirror Mirror" and "The Tholian Web". You'd finally "get" "Regeneration" after seeing FIRST CONTACT, hundreds of episodes down the line. Etc., etc. how would it all play if you watched ENTERPRISE as if it really was the first series in the franchise?


...not well, probably. But, it's an interesting thought experiment. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 January 2017 at 2:07am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

..."Twilight". 

This one didn't bore me, although it felt a bit familiar--like MEMENTO crossed with a few prior TREK episodes. And the human colony being located on Ceti Alpha V seems a little fanwanky (and won't be the last time ENTERPRISE employs TWOK fanwank), although there's a nice dramatic irony in that the planet's eventual ecological disaster would end up exterminating humanity, anyway.
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

So we can just give  ENTERPRISE to the JJ-verse then. Problem solved. 

Many Coto was the Difference in season 4 he was the showrunner for that season and brought on fresh writers  Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. 
I watched parts of the 4th season as the came on the air and made sure I was around for 

One thought about chronology: First Contact changes history with the Ent-E crew mucking things up, From there we get  ENTERPRISE TOS is changed in such a way that one one really remembers Kirk. and so on. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 26 January 2017 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

..."Similitude".

Here we have the introduction of writer/producer Manny Coto, a big TOS fan, and someone who actually has a clue of what to do with this series. A very solid episode, with an engaging "A" story, a neat "B" story, strong performances (with more Archer Who Will Do Anything To Stop The Xindi--good for Bakula, but still a stark contrast to the guy from the first two seasons), a properly metaphorical TREK-style ethical/moral dilemma, and some real character dynamics. I wasn't bored.

A breath of fresh air, to say the least!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 January 2017 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

...which is NOT how time-travel in STAR TREK works.

Coincidentally, yesterday I finished the first draft on a plot for NEW VISIONS that involves time travel and is pure TOS. Breaking all my own time travel rules, but as an episode it would have fit seamlessly beside "Tomorrow is Yesterday" or even the ending of "The Naked Time".

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Joe Boster
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Posted: 26 January 2017 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I enjoyed this one as well. Cloning was a hot topic back in the day. I keep waiting for Archer to utter the line don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. 

I think that you can feel that the Xndi arc was originally going to be shorter. One can almost tell which episodes matter to the Xindi arc and which do not. "Carpenter Street" has potential and then does nothing with it. "Proving ground" I liked almost everything about it. And can see the seeds for an Andorian on Enterprise has there been a season 5. 

It's funny to think there is more of ENTERPRISE(98), than TOS(79). 
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 27 January 2017 at 9:51pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Just finished season 3. Enjoyed the rest of the Xindi was to not press <Stop>. and even press pause a few times to not miss something. Wierd. It must be the cold that I am fighting.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 28 January 2017 at 12:49am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

..."Carpenter Street".

Oh, hey--Leland Orser and (an unrecognizable) Jeffrey Dean Morgan! A solid episode, although, as Joe notes, it doesn't really fulfill its potential.

And the fact that the Xindi are capable of time-travel opens a big can of worms--like, why don't the Xindi just travel back to a more vulnerable point in time to destroy humanity? I get the feeling that the show's producers wanted to do an inexpensive episode and threw in the Xindi plot to make it feel like a part of the season's arc.

Daniels pops up in this one, too. I always get a strong urge to punch the guy in the face whenever I see him. At least the phrase "Temporal Cold War" wasn't spoken aloud, this time.

Also, as a Metro-Detroiter, I can confirm that the episode's depiction of the city is not quite accurate. For the one thing, those hills seen in the background of some shots look more like...oh, I dunno...Los Angeles.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 28 January 2017 at 12:50am
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Byron Graham
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Posted: 28 January 2017 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

"Temporal Cold War"
-----------------------

That phrase doesn't make sense to me. If they're actively changing the timeline, how is that a "cold" war? Seems pretty hot to me.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 January 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

That phrase doesn't make sense to me. If they're actively changing the timeline, how is that a "cold" war? Seems pretty hot to me.

Perhaps it exists in the same universe in which Chris Claremont gave us "open covert warfare"!

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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 28 January 2017 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

The only people that do 13 episode series is Netflix Amazon and Fox
-------------------------------------------
And FX.  And HBO.  And Showtime.  And Starz.  And AMC.  And...and...and...

...and NBC just did it with the first season of THE GOOD PLACE. 

I think ENTERPRISE could have benefited from shorter seasons, especially if they were gonna arc each one.






Edited by Brian Rhodes on 28 January 2017 at 5:07pm
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 28 January 2017 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

The Xindi can't tine travel any more than Archer can. 
+++

ENTERPRISE could have benefited from shorter seasons

-Nu BSG could have benefited from not having a writers strike but they both exist in the time they were in. There were no  short seasons from anyone at the time. Hell, shows didn't even get cancelled after the first few episodes, loser shows made it half a season. 

++++

Temporal cold war...If this be our last Afganistan? 

++++++
Now I know why the show got cancelled after Season 4

Strom Front 1 and 2 (which ruined the season Finale in the process) 
Home. 2 duds and a boring. Then attack of the Guest star in Borderland. 

The great and ballyhood Season 4 starts with a whimper not with a bang. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 29 January 2017 at 2:15am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

..."Chosen Realm".

Another Manny Coto episode, and one which was has some bite to it, which is a refreshing change from the terminally-boring episodes of the first two seasons. This episode is a less-than subtle (and topical, for 2004) look at religious fundamentalism and suicide bombers, with more than a dash of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" thrown in. Not exactly subtle, but it at least has a compelling story, characters, and drama. 

A more logical and clever detour for the Xindi arc than "Carpenter Street", too, in that the NX-01 runs across a race that has a very different perception of life inside the Expanse. It's a nice one-off story which still feels organically connected to the season's main arc.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 01 February 2017 at 12:56am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

..."Harbinger".

Okay, so the obvious intent to create some sort of romantic undercurrent between Archer and T'Pol didn't work out in the first two seasons. Now, we get to Plan "B"--an awkward romantic relationship between Tucker and T'Pol. I gotta say that, as nice as it is to see Blalock actually have something to play with, acting-wise (jealousy mixed with insecurity mixed with uneasy attraction), seeing T'Pol jump Tucker in her quarters (complete with TREK's first true instance of partial nudity, which I believe was censored for the original US broadcast and subsequent reruns) and then blow off the whole thing as a study of human sexuality feels, shall we say, most un-Vulcan-like. And...illogical. Especially since Pon Farr isn't involved. 

I mean, really: in the middle of a war-drama arc, we're getting into full-on, CW-esque soap-opera-angst territory, here? Really?
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 01 February 2017 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Yep. Anything for a ratings bump. 

I dunno. I'm half way through season 4, and other than turning everything into a 3 part story, I kinda like the Xindi season better. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 04 February 2017 at 12:27am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

..."Azati Prime".

Well, after a few filler-ish episodes, we now get back to the Xindi conflict, and begin rolling into the end of the season. Some genuine suspense and tension, here, and some nice payoff of seeds planted earlier in the season. On the flipside, and in a development that would surely surprise no one, Sarris turns out to be the Big Bad of the season.

Again, this all just makes me wonder how a gritty Romulan War arc of a proper TOS prequel would play, with espionage, space battles, and drama galore.

Also, I find it interesting that the NX-01 crew examines stolen plans of the Xindi's sphere-shaped, planet-destroying superweapon, and considers using photonic torpedoes to cause a chain-reaction and destroy it. Sounds strangely familiar, for some reason...


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 04 February 2017 at 3:14am
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 04 February 2017 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

"We have discovered an exhaust port that leads directly to the main reactor" :P
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Joe Boster
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Posted: 05 February 2017 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

One episode to go! as a Season I prefer season 3. I Really didn't like the multi-part stories as much as I thought I would In many cases they seemed to just end at a normal commercial break except it was the end of the show. 

In a Mirror Darkly.. Some people talk about seeing "flimsy sets and so one with TOS", for Mirror I just saw all the redressed Enterprise sets. All the little things bugged me and took me out of the show. Most of all was the weapon systems, I also didn't care for Mirror archer. I expected the Xindi/Ahab archer taken to extremes but we got unhinged archer instead. 

While I blasted it at first the Augment episodes wound up being the best story for me. It turns out good acting can prop up a average story.

I still go with my original assessment that it is as good as any sci-fi on broadcast TV. And if were not name Star Trek if would like it more. 


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