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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 January 2017 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Found this comment on the IMDb, under "Goofs"......

"There are numerous instances where the flimsy nature of the set can be seen when an actor/actress bumps into a wall and the wall bends with him/her."

Numerous? This is a TOS legend for which I can find no substantial corroboration. Nimoy's impact cracks and bends the wall he hits when Kirk and Spock are tossed by the titular character in "Charlie X", but I can't recall any others. (I thought it also happened in "The Man Trap", but checking I see I was mistaken.)

What am I forgetting?

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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 18 January 2017 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I recently flipped though something that had a picture of someone "lifting" a part of the helm on the bridge set during an attack or some sort of emergency.  I'm sorry I don't have more details, but those types of things rarely take me out of a story so they don't weigh on my memory.
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Ed Fahey
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Posted: 25 January 2017 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I once saw a blooper tape that showed several unaired scenes where the crew bashed into doors that didn't open fast enough, etc. causing the sets to wobble. Probably on network TV in the 70's or 80's. Perhaps the reviewerhad seen something similar and conflated the two leading to his belief the actual show had such moments.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 January 2017 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I once saw a blooper tape that showed several unaired scenes where the crew bashed into doors that didn't open fast enough, etc. causing the sets to wobble. Probably on network TV in the 70's or 80's. Perhaps the reviewerhad seen something similar and conflated the two leading to his belief the actual show had such moments.

Now THAT would not surprise me. Coupled with the way urban/internet myths get carved in stone in no time at all, something like that could easily create this false memory of TOS having flimsy sets.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 February 2017 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Watched a few minutes of "This Side of Paradise" on BBC America last night. Tuned in just in time to catch the fight between Kirk and Spock. In one moment, Spock is slammed full force into a bulkhead. Nary a quiver to be seen.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 2:54am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I've been making my way through season 1 and not noticed any flimsy sets. Likewise, I have been noticing in the fights things are not moving.

I wish people wouldn't cast false aspersions against TOS
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I wish people wouldn't cast false aspersions against TOS

Dissing TOS has become a way for Trek "fans" to make themselves seem cool. Kind of like those comic fans who insult me with about as much evidence to support their charges.

Once something attaches to these micro-minds it is very difficult to shake it loose.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I'm saddened that the worst myths about Star Trek seem to be (among? primarily?!) the most enduring.

So long ago it was, so many of the creators and cast now gone -- and will it thus be (mis-)remembered more and more as a punchline? 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

We've seen the same thing happen in comics, as ennui-engorged fanboys -- WAY past their expiration dates -- take to mocking what they "love" in order to show how cool they are, how much superior to the material.

There is also the prevalent habit of judging the Past by the standards of the Present. Yes, the special effects on TOS a pretty primitive by today's standards, where even the cheapest show can afford CGI. But they were state of the art for the mid-1960s, and much better in fact, than most shows on at the same time. (Check LOST IN SPACE, VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, or TIME TUNNEL for truly shoddy effects.)

Ten years after TOS George Lucas practically reinvented the whole process of special effects, to give us STAR WARS, but the compositing is still painfully obvious in hindsight. At the time, it was simply something we accepted.*

____________________

* In THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE there is a rather startling moment when a character leans outside the frame of a matte shot, and the top of his head disappears!

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Something remarkable to me is how quickly popular trashing Star Trek became. As a tot, I watched the show in reruns with absolutely delight. The cartoon was, although even then the animation made me cranky and displeased, pretty OK too. But then I was a bit older and suddenly the original show is being spoofed on Saturday Night Live. That was 1975 or 76, I think. So quickly the turn!

Do you think, JB, that "fanboys" who were openly, gleefully anti-traditional comicbooks also came to the fore around that same time? Is this all traceable to post-Vietnam, post-Watergate dejected yet splenetic recoil?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Watergate spoiled a lot! It did serious damage to the whole concept of authority figures being people we should trust implicitly. And TOS being classic "gunboat diplomacy"...

There was, as noted, also a sudden surge in the quality of special effects, mostly driven by STAR WARS, and people, especially civilians, became dismissive of what had come before. "Look how great STAR WARS is! Why isn't STAR TREK that good?"

Of course, STAR TREK tried to be "that good," with THE MOTION PICTURE, and lost itself in the process.

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

The fans I know today who disrespect Star Trek do so because bad special effects are bad no matter when they were made. Star Wars is just so much more cool. It just is. Since that gives them an unassailable place from which to launch attacks, they do so constantly, laughing and laughing themselves silly every time some phaser fires or an alien entity appears*.

Even those who claim to love the series do so with a tacit understanding that the whole thing is just so silly. You know what really got it right, though? Those recent Star Trek movies! McCoy was sooooooo funny!!

Really, it's often a trial for me not to simply punch my friends in the face and be done with it...

* And then of course, I have that one friend whose laughter and disdain for Trek is limitless but who turns icily brittle and sometimes violent if you so much as make a glancing reference at the expense of "The Phantom Menace," as if Lucas's film were some poor abused animal the public has been kicking mercilessly and it needs her to defend it from the rest of us monsters...


Edited by Brian Hague on 19 February 2017 at 9:13am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

The movies, of course, take all the misconceptions about TOS and put them in one big box. As I said when the first one came out, it seemed like someone of roughly my generation had watch the original series in first run, seen each (and perhaps not all) of the episodes once, and, working purely from fifty year old memories, described TOS to Jar Jar Abrams. "See, I remember there was this scene where Spock and Uhura were flirting."

The Abrams movies are the Wikipedia of STAR TREK, composed of parts that are true and parts that very much are not, with the audience having no way to tell which is which. (And mostly not caring, truth to tell.)

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I've played this game with any number of young friends. It's a combination of several factors--visual effects taking a quantum-leap over e past few decades, attention-spans shrinking dramatically, a complete lack of appreciation for content, and the entertainment shifting more and more to disposable eye-candy, rather than deep characters and stories which can be revisited again and again. And, of course, there's the Rise of Snark, where everything has to be laughed at and/or picked apart. People don't quite seem to get invested in stories and characters, anymore. There's a distinct lack of verismilitude, in many viewers.

I have a young friend who could not get through ALIEN. For weeks, she tried to watch it, but could not get through it. Then, she watched ALIENS, and greatly enjoyed it. This likely being because ALIEN is a slowly-paced horror film, with ALIENS being a thrill-ride war film. I tried to explain to her that ALIEN is widely considered a hugely influential genre classic, and that it has some of the most memorable production design and visuals in film history. But, it's been almost 40 years. The novelty has worn off (helped in no small part by countless imitations and knockoffs), and the context is lost upon today's generation.

Same with STAR WARS. We're now reaching a point where the original STAR WARS is becoming "the one with the cheesy graphics, where they're just walking around in the desert". I know young people who prefer the prequels to the original trilogy, and whose childhood hero is Anakin Skywalker, not Luke.

And so it is with STAR TREK. The context is lost. Kids don't appreciate the nuances of story and character. They just want to see things blow up, and hear some snarky jokes which undercut the story within the story. As if every character in every movie needs to be Deadpool--aware of how ridiculous everything is, and constantly making fun of it.

No sense of history, no appreciation for real and honest storytelling, with characters you can truly invest in. That's what it comes down to.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 19 February 2017 at 11:04am
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

The few times that I've had discussions about this subject. Each time I've reached the same conclusion. The people who think of the sets as cheap and flimsy. Think so because of the simplistic design of the set. As time has gone bye and production costs have risen. People have come to expect a  greater degree of detail in the sets. This mindset has caused them to wrongfully judge TOS today's standards. Most if not all of these thinkers can't or won't judge the show by the standards that existed at the time the show was being produced. 

There is another group who judge the entire series based upon the third season. There is something to be said about the lack of quality in some of those sets. But not the entirety of them. Nor is it right to judge the entire series by a few episode in one season.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 19 February 2017 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

"Look how great STAR WARS is! Why isn't STAR TREK that good?"

Of course, STAR TREK tried to be "that good," with THE MOTION PICTURE, and lost itself in the process.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Along comes Jar Jar Abrams and makes the matter worse.

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