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Topic: Star Wars Ep. VIII:The Last Jedi - SPOILERS begin Pg 12 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 29 January 2017 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I remember being very shocked that Luke was going to face Vader in Empire and thinking 'if they meet now, how do you get another four films with them both in'?

I was expecting a couple of films of Empire building (literally) before we got to the big fights.
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EMPIRE seems very much structured around the idea of to keeping the series viable in the long-term, in case actors decided to leave. Han is frozen, in case Harrison Ford (who was not contracted for a trilogy, as Hamill and Fisher were) didn't want to come back, with Lando set up as a possible replacement. The notion of "another" is introduced, both to add weight to Luke's rash decision to go to Bespin, and to introduce the possibility of a new main character--perhaps Luke's sister--in case Hamill wanted out after three films.

During the making of STAR WARS, the hope was for a trilogy which would detail the Empire's defeat. After success (and money) came onto the scene, Lucas expanded that plan to three trilogies, with the final defeat of the Empire to occur in EPISODE IX. Hamill made statements early on that he'd probably become the Ben Kenobi-type character for the Sequel Trilogy (since the prequels would ostensibly come prior to the Sequel Trilogy), but Lucas was apparently thinking of a more multi-generational saga, early on, with perhaps less crossover by familiar characters between the trilogies than we eventually got.

I must admit that it's very surreal to now be experiencing a Sequel Trilogy with Hamill as the Ben Kenobi-type character (right down to...sigh...Luke being a failed teacher living in exile, and passing the burden of solving the problem to the next generation). Never say "never", eh?
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 29 January 2017 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Or there is no "second page," and the first film actually ENDS the story, since the Good Guys have most demonstratively WON.

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That's entirely possible. The problem is that those notes are undated, so they may well have been written prior to the establishment of the nine-film plan. Since THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was labeled as EPISODE V once Father Vader was inserted into the story--with STAR WARS becoming EPISODE IV, it would seem likely that the page of notes posted above comes from a time from prior to that fateful retcon, due to STAR WARS being listed as "Episode VI", and appearing to be the end of the entire story (assuming there isn't another page of notes).

It could very well be that Lucas was planning for some sort of Father Vader-less Clone Wars trilogy beforehand.


A friend of mine, who's still a newbie to the films (I introduced him to them about two years ago), recently made a very astute observation about the sequels and prequels, after one of my rants regarding Disney pumping out SW fanfilms until the end of time: "Really, after the original, aren't they all just fanfilms?".

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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 January 2017 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

A date on that sheet would mean nothing, really, since it could have been written at any time. All depends on which part of the myth-building was being supported.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 29 January 2017 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

But with Star Wars listed as episode 6 -- and being called Star Wars and not A New Hope-- presumably it does come from before The Empire Strikes Back.
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 30 January 2017 at 1:45am | IP Logged | 5 post reply


Isn't that image of the hand-written page in the Rinzler book and isn't it dated there?  It's been a while since I read the first one though.


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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 30 January 2017 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The image is in Rinzler's THE MAKING OF THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, which describes it as undated, but from "very early".
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 30 January 2017 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply


Ahhh, knew I had seen it in there somewhere. 

Do you happen to know if there will be a new version of Secret History of Star Wars now that all three Rinzler books are out?

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 30 January 2017 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

A few years back, Michael Kaminski was talking about releasing a revised and updated version of SECRET HISTORY, but it hasn't happened. The supplemental website was down for quite awhile, too, but I believe it's back up, as is www.savestarwars.com. There hasn't been much activity on SECRET HISTORY's Facebook page, either. Michael's mostly been active on his YouTube channel, STAR WARS NEWS AND VIEWS, which is a good source for info, rumors, and discussion on the latest goings-on with the new films.

I'll drop him a line, and see what I can find out.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 31 January 2017 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Interview with Rian Johnson in Empire magazine:    http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/rian-johnson-las t-jedi-interview/

On the idioms point, I expect he'd be ace at cooking up his own, if Brick is any indication.
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 17 February 2017 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

There has been some speculation as to whether the title
refers to Jedi as singular or plural. According to the
title being released in foreign languages, the title
refers to Jedi as plural.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 17 February 2017 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

So the international titles for THE LAST JEDI are out, and they are all
using the plural form.
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Joie Simmons
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Posted: 22 February 2017 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

It occurred to me the other day that there's no reason to believe that
Luke didn't have a school of Jedi on the planet where he was waiting
for Rey.
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