Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Star Wars
Byrne Robotics > Star Wars << Prev Page of 13 Next >>
Topic: Star Wars Ep. VIII:The Last Jedi - SPOILERS begin Pg 12 Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11499
Posted: 10 September 2017 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I think it's important to ask the question, rather than assuming Disney's motives are good and pure. 

-----

I really don't. It's show business, and I'm less concerned with Disney's motives as I am with its execution. If Rey starts lecturing Kylo Ren on his toxic masculinity, or Rose starts bemoaning that she's a model minority, we can start discussing inappropriately working in agendas, but Rey and Jyn being leads is far far from anything being skewed. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1405
Posted: 10 September 2017 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

You've been saving me a great deal of typing, Michael.

The more popular the product, the louder the sniping by detractors.  Sort of inevitable, I suppose. I thought the object of the "blockbuster" exercise was to create entertainment that appealed to the broadest audience possible.  All told, Disney has currently has about 3 billion reasons to think they are doing a good job.

If you asked them would they rather make a critically acclaimed fan-favorite movie like Blade Runner, which has made very little money, or a lighter, popcorn-fueled mega blockbuster like TFA, or (they hope) TLJ, you can guess their answer.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14373
Posted: 11 September 2017 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Fair points. I fully acknowledge that I'm no longer the target demographic for these films. Still, it's a hard thing to come to terms with, emotionally. Sort of like a marriage slowly dissolving. Again, I don't begrudge anyone who loves these films, but I do find myself scratching my head at how they've been so wholeheartedly embraced.


It should be noted that STAR WARS pretty much started as a weird little art film (despite being backed by a major studio). Ever since then, it's become more and more about the business and the merchandising. I think the last traces of artfulness in the series ended when Lucas gave it up, and it's now about brand management and demographics, more than anything else. A bad thing? Perhaps not.

Still, I saw STAR WARS-themed, Bounty-brand paper towels in a store, today, so I'd say we're about a half-step from STAR WARS: THE TOILET PAPER. Not to say that the films haven't already been heavily merchandised, over the decades, but rather that the merchandising now seems to be much more aggressive, and is spilling into many new sorts of products (like cosmetic makeup and soup).
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1161
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Rey is the best part of the new films. Her whole backstory as a solitary scavenger hit me hard, and I am *hardly* the one they're selling her dolls and costumes to. She rules. Kylo Ren is a little turd. Looking forward to Rey, Chewie, Luke & R2 having some adventures.

(edited for they're)


Edited by Richard Stevens on 15 September 2017 at 6:28am
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 5395
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply


"...so I find myself wondering if a prominent Asian cast member is just properly diverse casting, or an attempt to help broaden the film's appeal in that market."

Why can't it be both?



Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I think the last traces of artfulness in the series ended when Lucas gave it up, and it's now about brand management and demographics, more than anything else. 

***

In my opinion, REVENGE OF THE SITH was a feature-length toy commercial. ;-)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14373
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Why can't it be both?
+++++++++++

It's not necessarily a bad thing. If little girls and minorities feel represented, now, that's a good thing. It's just that the thought of this stuff possibly being motivated by profit and politics makes me a bit uneasy.

I was talking about this to a nerdy friend (who's a minority), today. We both agreed that STAR TREK set the pattern for doing it right, by casting diversely/colorblindly whenever possible, and even trying to sneak things past the censors. That was more about sending a positive message than it was boosting ratings and generating advertising revenue. Heck, the show risked alienating the southern states with that famous interracial kiss in "Plato's Stepchildren".

My friend agreed that this new era of STAR WARS feels more than a little calculated, and, as a minority, the vibe it sends out doesn't exactly reassure him that it's all for the good.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14373
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

In my opinion, REVENGE OF THE SITH was a feature-length toy commercial. ;-)
+++++++++++

I often wonder how much that comes down to Lucas, and how much to marketing. In all of the interviews and whatnot I've seen, Lucas tends to be more about experimental filmmaking techniques and storytelling. Marketing is surely a consideration, but I wouldn't necessarily say that was his sole motivation, even during the prequel era.

A lot of people think he crapped out all of the sequel/prequel movies after STAR WARS just to make a quick buck, but I'd argue that's much more what's happening now--moreso than it ever was during Lucas' reign.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13967
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Greg Kirkman wrote:
...A lot of people think he crapped out all of the sequel/prequel movies after STAR WARS just to make a quick buck, but I'd argue that's much more what's happening now--moreso than it ever was during Lucas' reign..


I am no fan of the prequels, but I agree totally with this statement. I do believe Lucas's marketing considerations were secondary to his desire to tell the story his way. And I also think that Disney's considerations are more on marketing than story. Hell, they as much as stated a such when they bought the property, mentioning they already had the young female audience with Disney's princesses, and they wanted Star Wars to get the young male audience.

My guess is Rey and other female leads in the franchise (which, I must say I have no problem with in any event) is Disney trying to reach both young males and females. That isn't a bad thing, but I do wish they were doing a better job with how the stories are being executed. "The Force Awakens" is every bit the rehash many have accused it of being, and "Rogue One" was an unnecessary prequel that did nothing to further the story.

I get playing it "safe" in terms of story after the Lucas prequels, but perhaps they played it too darn safe.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11499
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 7:08pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I am no fan of the prequels, but I agree totally with this statement. I do believe Lucas's marketing considerations were secondary to his desire to tell the story his way. And I also think that Disney's considerations are more on marketing than story.

-------

Whatever George Lucas or Kathleen Kennedy intended with their respective trilogies, Lucasfilm has been all about marketing and branding since shortly after the first film came out. From the STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL to the DROIDS cartoon to SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE to the Expanded Universe, Lucasfilm has been pumping out characters and stories to sell stuff for almost 40 years. Let's not pretend this is something new with Disney. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11499
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE was literally, "Let's do a massive multiplatform tie-in and merchandising push for a movie... without actually making a movie." As much as I enjoyed the N64 game, I felt kind of cheated a few years after the fact when I realized it wasn't really the "unmade sequel" it originally presented itself as. As far as I'm concerned, Lucasfilm under Disney has yet to do something as mercenary. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14373
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I am no fan of the prequels, but I agree totally with this statement. I do believe Lucas's marketing considerations were secondary to his desire to tell the story his way. And I also think that Disney's considerations are more on marketing than story. Hell, they as much as stated a such when they bought the property, mentioning they already had the young female audience with Disney's princesses, and they wanted Star Wars to get the young male audience.
+++++++++++++++++

I think there's a case to be made that they went into this trilogy without any real plan, and might very well be making it up as they go along. Did they really have Rey and Snoke and all those Mystery Box elements worked out during the making of TFA?

Of course, STAR WARS began as a single film, and then ended up as a made-up-as-they-went trilogy, whereas general narrative thrust of the prequels really WAS planned out in advance, with only the specifics fluctuating from film to film.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14373
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Whatever George Lucas or Kathleen Kennedy intended with their respective trilogies, Lucasfilm has been all about marketing and branding since shortly after the first film came out. From the STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL to the DROIDS cartoon to SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE to the Expanded Universe, Lucasfilm has been pumping out characters and stories to sell stuff for almost 40 years. Let's not pretend this is something new with Disney.
+++++++++++++

I get the impression that at first, Lucas really just wanted to fund his state-of-the-art filmmakers' retreat and roll his proceeds back into making experimental films, but STAR WARS and its marketing machine mutated into a massive and self-sustaining entity, and so he just rolled with it.

Lucas has said many times over the years that his heart lies with independent and experimental filmmaking and technology. He's never quite seemed comfortable as the head of a corporation.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 14373
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE was literally, "Let's do a massive multiplatform tie-in and merchandising push for a movie... without actually making a movie." As much as I enjoyed the N64 game, I felt kind of cheated a few years after the fact when I realized it wasn't really the "unmade sequel" it originally presented itself as. As far as I'm concerned, Lucasfilm under Disney has yet to do something as mercenary.
++++++++++++++

I don't quite know if I'd call that "mercenary". Even at the time, it seemed more to me like Lucasfilm both testing the waters regarding audience demand for new STAR WARS, while simultaneously stoking the flames for the prequels which were then in development. It was a clever marketing concept, and it's not like they obfuscated the fact that there wasn't an actual movie to base the merchandise on. Indeed, they were pretty darn open about that.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13967
Posted: 15 September 2017 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
...Let's not pretend this is something new with Disney...


Please show me where I stated that.

Seriously, you often come off combative for its own sake sometimes.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4212
Posted: 20 September 2017 at 12:00am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Mark Hamill is tweeting to watch Monday night football on October 9th. For no reason.

In a world (deep voice) where movies get trailers nearly a year before release, it is refreshing how Lucasfilm are marketing these films. Late trailers and little to no actual plot details revealed.

Makes a change from what went on with the prequels where nothing was a surprise
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8013
Posted: 09 October 2017 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

New trailer has dropped. Trying to keep my
brain from exploding!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 5395
Posted: 09 October 2017 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply


Hey, it gave me goosebumps.  But more because of the music.

My wife and son loved THE FORCE AWAKENS, so I'll be there with them, too, for this one.  But I'm keeping my expectations very low!






Edited by Shaun Barry on 09 October 2017 at 8:54pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
David Spurlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 270
Posted: 09 October 2017 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Just watched the new trailer and now I know why Rian Johnson said to avoid watching it.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Ryan Maxwell
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12229
Posted: 09 October 2017 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I checked the seating chart for the first showing at my local theater and it was 90% sold out, so I picked up tix.  I haven't done that since Phantom Menace.  
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 11499
Posted: 09 October 2017 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

The trailer did not have enough Porgs!
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4212
Posted: 10 October 2017 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Either a lot of mis-direction, or a lot of the plot could be guessed/inferred from that trailer.

I'll be there on opening day though
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6843
Posted: 10 October 2017 at 6:21am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Again, Pass.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3370
Posted: 10 October 2017 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Nice trailer. Not jaw dropping, but still intriguing. With all they showed us, I'm curious about what they didn't show.

-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2978
Posted: 10 October 2017 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I got the word to avoid the trailer a bit too late. I'm disappointed in how much the trailer seems to reveal and hope it is clever misdirection. I think it is time to avoid any and all Last Jedi info until the movie releases.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 13 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login