Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
TV
Byrne Robotics > TV
Topic: "Actor" is Politically Correct? Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106112
Posted: 09 March 2017 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Over on the IMDb i just found a viewer's review of an old TV series in which the typist referred to a "character actress" and then added a parenthetical mini-rant declaring it was not "actor" and excoriating the idiots who insisted on such "politically correct" usage.

Except, it's not PC. It's merely proper English.

See, unlike many languages, English most eschews genderized words. Not entirely, but when a word ends in "or" it's free from gender. So we don't need to say "actress" any more than we need to say "professress" or "neighbress."

Honest!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7092
Posted: 09 March 2017 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Waiter and waitress....
Back to Top profile | search
 
Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1327
Posted: 09 March 2017 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I think the only time I use "actress" is when the gender is explicitly pertinent, as in "Best Actress" Oscar. Otherwise the gender neutral version is just fine?

"Neighbress."  Gah. Sounds like that should be the sound a mare makes.
Back to Top profile | search | www | email
 
Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2209
Posted: 09 March 2017 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I've had this debate before. I refuse to say comedienne.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10785
Posted: 09 March 2017 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Waiter and waitress....

-----

I spent some time trying to think about when I last heard these words
used in a restaurant. I honestly can't remember. It's always "server".
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3805
Posted: 09 March 2017 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Waiter. Actor.

One ends in er and the other or. The point is a title ending in or.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 537
Posted: 10 March 2017 at 12:26am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

<JB> See, unlike many languages, English most eschews genderized words. Not entirely, but when a word ends in "or" it's free from gender. So we don't need to say "actress" any more than we need to say "professress" or "neighbress."

Maybe it's more fitting to say that English has outgrown the need for genderized descriptors.

That said I still hear the term "executrix" used, even though there already exists a form with the "or" suffix.  It wouldn't be English if it didn't have an exception for every rule.

I doubt the English language will ever be completely free of this sort of thing.  A number of the 'profession names' also carry remnants of their genderized past.  The surname "Baxter" originally referred to the female form of "Baker", for example.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Ray Brady
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3621
Posted: 10 March 2017 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

My doctress strongly disagrees, and my lawyeress will be contacting you soon.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 967
Posted: 11 March 2017 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Can we consider this going back to Mr. (Mister) and Mrs. (Mistress)?

Personally, I refer to our wait-person and be done with it.

I have no objection to just referring to actor, doctor, lawyer. Of course, if you're not differentiating by gender, you don't get to differentiate by gender. Olympics, sports, awards... you can't split off men and women. The Oscars will now just go to the best supporting actor and best actor, period.

This doesn't seem like something that can be black and white, and cleanly divided.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4358
Posted: 12 March 2017 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The idea that language structure contributes significantly to gender inequality is a tricky one.

For example, Japanese is even less gendered than English, such as the suffix "-san" serving equally for men and women in place of both "Mister" and "Mrs." in English. Over here, we don't even have anything that serves such a purpose.

But nobody would ever get up and say that Japan, being freed from sexist constraints in language, is a society of perfect gender equality!
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 15045
Posted: 12 March 2017 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I hope I am not going too far off topic, but a post in this thread reminds me...

A former coworker once stepped into my office and gleefully accused me of
making a spelling error when I used "Messrs. _____ and _____" to refer to two
gentlemen in an email. When I told her that it wasn't a spelling error, my
coworker reiterated that it was, and offered a money bet that she was right. I
declined the wager, but showed her the abbreviation in the dictionary.

She sniffed, and left my office without a word.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 967
Posted: 13 March 2017 at 4:40am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Wallace - what, you were using the WHOLE vocabulary? You scoundrel! Who does that? :)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2668
Posted: 13 March 2017 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

About a year ago I was chastised for using the word "android" when referring to an artificial being which happened to have a female form.I guess fem-bot would have been more desirable?


Edited by Ed Love on 13 March 2017 at 8:23am
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 9519
Posted: 13 March 2017 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Gynoid springs to mind for such a being.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 9519
Posted: 13 March 2017 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

And if it's any kind of 'bot', android or gynoid are both technically the wrong term.

Androids and gynoids are artificial humans, made not born. Star Wars seems to have mutilated the term into meaning human-form robots... but that's just a robot. An andoid should have a brain, lungs, a heart, eyes, the whole works. Maybe not a navel :)
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 106112
Posted: 13 March 2017 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

This battle is lost. Dictionaries define androids as robots with human forms.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 1518
Posted: 15 March 2017 at 2:09am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Androids and gynoids are artificial humans, made not born.


_____________________________


Quick question. Is a genetically engineered human that was created and grown in a lab considered to be an android?

Edited by Rick Whiting on 15 March 2017 at 2:10am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 967
Posted: 15 March 2017 at 4:46am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Rick W: " Is a genetically engineered human that was created and grown in a lab considered to be an android?"

I'm not a lexicologist, but I would call such a being a clone. Or possibly deserving of a word not yet created for a event far, far from existing.

Andriod etc. imply to me created entities that are mechanical (or mostly so) that are specifically designed to mimic human form.

Cyborg implies to me beings that were originally humans and have significant mechanical replacements. No, I don't have a percentage , but such occurrences are pretty rare these days... maybe artificial limbs at our current degree of technology might be a qualifier, but those users would qualify themselves as human, I believe.

Synthezoid is the Vision. It's a unique word, and a subset of android.
Back to Top profile | search
 

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login