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Topic: Greg Land and familiarity with the creative process (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Drew Spence
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Posted: 26 April 2017 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 1  

I have no idea if this subject has been discussed or ignored 'round these parts. Or if it's even in poor taste to mention, but while cruising the internet(s), I came across MANY articles and debates about the work of Greg Land. He is a comic artist whose work and creative system has been scrutinized and criticized.

 

He employs a technique where images are scanned and he traces on top of them to create some of his renders. The images vary in source from (some pornography) magazines to still movie frames and also the renderings of other artists. For some, it's seen as paying homage, others see it as straight copy and theft and at worst, a hack job and a lack of respect for the noble craft of illustrative story-telling.

 

The technique of photo-referencing is common as is modeling,but it would appear his intensive use of this system has led to outcries from some parts of the creative community.

 

The reason I find this interesting is how it relates to how knowledgeable some seem to be with his creative process. There are numerous sites 'exposing' his source material and many side-by-side comparisons showing how exacting his traces are.

 

There will always be a supporting sub-culture behind any genre or human interest. Amateurs and hobbyists exist in the narrow world of "experienced enough to have an informed opinion, but NOT involved enough to understand the working environment and system of the living industry".

 

Familiarity with the creative process can lead to assumptions about the creative. It works both ways. Part of being a Creative + Genius is safe-guarding your sources (of inspiration *ahem*) and technique(s). No one wants to be summarized "All they do is..." "Anyone can do that,I could..."  and have their labors dismissed as a simple process. Credit can be given when the some understand the difficulty in your creative process.

"I've tried that, it's almost impossible to..""Very few can..."

 

or do NOT understand the process:

 "How do they?" "What do they use to..."

If your artwork is appreciated at face value, any measure of credit can be given whether it be simple or complex

- to do something first

- to do something, no one else is currently doing

- to do the common and familiar in a novel way

- to bring back or capture an old spirit for newer eyes

 

Our perception of the creative process will decide where our sensibilities fall.

Our attitudes will rank the works we encounter.

Our attitude will decide when respect or derision is warranted.

Our maturity will decide how deep we dig before deciding.




Edited by Drew Spence on 26 April 2017 at 3:52pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 26 April 2017 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 2  

In my youth I would have been critical of the methods used by Greg Land. Being older and having experienced life as a freelance artist. I've changed my opinion. It has also help hearing Neal Adams talk about the subject of photo reference and even tracing. 

If Greg Land can do it well and people want to pay him to do it. Who am I to say that it's wrong. What ever it takes to get the job done. 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 26 April 2017 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 3  

My own feelings here relate to the limitations Land has to use the photo reference as an aid. Where as, say, Neal Adams would use photo reference but be able to adapt the reference and retain consistency of character face and clearly have the art be Neal Adams, Land seems incapable of being able to adapt a face or body such that these are consistent for the character throughout a page, issues, series.

Neal Adams' Bruce Wayne always looked like Bruce Wayne. Greg Land's Jean Grey looked like whichever model he had traced. He also chooses the most rediculous poses to trace, which is another story of course
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 26 April 2017 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 4  

Every artist gets inspiration from other sources, especially when the deadlines are looming. But in my mind, the end result of the supposedly ORIGINAL artwork should not be easily identified with the original inspiration.

For example, If I get inspiration from something JB has done, then I think it's ok if a person sees my art and says they can see the JB influence. But I know I've failed as a creative if the person can state what book and panel it came from.

Tracing another source and presenting that as your original work is just wrong on every level.

Homage work is a trend that gets used too often. But at least proper homages give credit to the original artist who's work was used as inspiration. This is just my opinion but I were an actual pro and I wanted to homage another artist, I feel I'd ask for permission first. Otherwise it just feels kinda rude to me.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 26 April 2017 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 5  


Tracing another source and presenting that as your original work is just wrong on every level.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Neal Adams would disagree with that opinion Robert. I once felt the same way that you did about it. But after hearing Adams talk about it and learning first hand just how often that sort of thing happens. I had to change my opinion.
 
When I first began working as an apprentice for an artist studio. It was my job to handle cartoon related projects. i'd draw the picture and the boss would paint it for the client. In the beginning I would draw the pictures using reference. But it took too long and sometimes it wasn't a perfect recreation. My boss didn't want me doing that. I was to print out a photo and project it onto the drawing surface and trace it. Naturally I objected at first. But time is money and staying faithful to the image the client wanted was more important.   Speaking to other artists I've met I learned that they did the same thing. I still felt uneasy about doing it. When I heard Neal Adams talking about it I expected him to talk negatively about it. I was surprised to hear him saying things supporting it. That made me see that I had to change the way I thought about it.

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 12:55am | IP Logged | 6  

I wish Greg Land wouldn't rely so heavily on tracing photos, and the like. His earlier work in comics, which he appeared to not so heavily rely on photos during that period, is quite good and shows he has the talent and ability to not have to use photos as any sort of crutch.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 7  

I don't object quite so much to the creative process... if an artist is using photos or tracings, and it's good story and art, I'm okay with it. I don't want to delve quite that deeply into considering the process while I'm enjoying the book.

My issue with Greg Land, as noted, is that he isn't consistent in his art. In his Crossgen book, Sojourn, the lead characters sometimes didn't look much like themselves from one panel to another. That yanked me right out of the story back into the real world, and I did not like it.

I mean, realistically, someone could even take photo stills from a television show and rearrange them into a photo-novel, and as long as the stories are superb, I would not only not dislike it, I would enjoy it immensely. But I need consistent presentation and "voice" to appreciate it.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 4:26am | IP Logged | 8  

I have no problem with artists using life models,photo
reference etc,but i do feel that a lot of Land`s work
looks very static.J.B. uses photos in his Star Trek work
for IDW and he does it well,but we know J.B. CAN draw if
he chooses!
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 5:59am | IP Logged | 9  

There's a HUGE difference from doing it occasionally as reference (i.e. Adams) and it being the only thing you do (i.e. Land).  Plus, I know Neal Adams can draw anything without benefit of tracing or using a reference.  I'm not so sure about Greg Land being able to do that.
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Drew Spence
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 6:45am | IP Logged | 10  

That's why I think it's also related to familiarity with his process. IF you knew he could draw-his-butt off, you'd be more forgiving for the tracing. And see what he does as a STYLE or a method he was exploring. That's also related to you (and many others) caring so much about the working process.

 HOW does an artist create their art?

That's important to many.
Not just the end result (which is also critiqued- based on the method's limitations NOT being overcome.)
------
When I started drawing, I didn't know comic artists drew big and shrunk it down. I used to fold and cut the paper(s) into the exact size of a Marvel comic and draw on that. And so I was very good with minute details but terrible with longer lines and curves. I felt like they WERE CHEATING when I discovered they basically drew posters.

Same when you hear a song you think is original and find out it's a remake. Or a new movie is based on a long time franchise or fabled story. Etc..

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 11  

For those wondering if Greg Land can draw well without tracing photos, check out his work on NIGHTWING from the late 1990s. The guy has the chops to draw without relying on photos.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 27 April 2017 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 12  

I agree there Matt, it's like they are two different people. 
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