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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 1
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Then the industry exploded and comic book shops became all the rage
Ultimately I think we should look upon the rise of the comic book shops as an IMplosion. The industry turning inwards, against all common sense and good business models. It didn't really matter how many companies or titles there were, if access to them was thru increasingly limited venues. Impulse buying, the very life blood of the industry for forty years, was virtually eliminated.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7482
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 2
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When I was a kid back in Wisconsin, I could go to the convenience store a block and a half away or to the drugstore three blocks away and buy a comic book.
Can't find 'em in a 7-Eleven or Quik-Chek or Wawa these days. Not in a Giant or Safeway or Harris Teeter (all supermarkets in VA). Not in Wal-Mart, Costco...probably not in BJ's Warehouse either.
So where do you go? You have to go to a special store.
Imagine if all magazines had decided to limit themselves to *just* one location to buy comics because TIME or LIFE or NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC obsessed readers love them some back issues.
It is stunning, in retrospect, to see the publishers assisting in their own marginalization and the diminishing of their readership.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 3
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Imagine if all magazines had decided to limit themselves to *just* one location to buy comics because TIME or LIFE or NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC obsessed readers love them some back issues.It is stunning, in retrospect, to see the publishers assisting in their own marginalization and the diminishing of their readership. You touch there on an important and seemingly long forgotten point: the DSM was created as an aftermarket. It was not supposed to be the fans who were buying their books from DSM outlets, but the owners of those outlets, who would buy them at discounted prices in order to be able to sell them as back issues to collectors. Two things happened, tho. The retailers realized they could sell the books they just got in new, and the Companies realized the DSM (for which special editions were printed) was pure profit. A third thing that happened was some dealers, not selling all the books they ordered, tried to return them thru the usual channels, usually with the help of a friend who worked for the local distributor. This is called "cheating", and Marvel and DC were forced to take steps to stop it. (Outraged cries from those dealers. "What? You expect us to honor our contacts??")
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7482
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 4
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Seems that when any development in business presents itself as all-win, 100% upside, it must be viewed with extreme skepticism. Things that are "too good to be true" almost always are--and the DSM should have seemed too good to be true.
Unfortunately, those who looked past the immediate, short term profit to be made, toward the longer term health of the industry, were overlooked, derided as Cassandras or wet blankets and... saw what happened next.
I have some doubts it would have been possible to contain the DSM to be purely an aftermarket without some concerted strategy among the publishers. Honestly, I can't imagine such a thing was ever considered.
Other markets must have seen the DSM getting preferential treatment, which only accelerated their decision to get out of the comics business as well.
Money blinds otherwise sensible people.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 5
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And thank you, JB. I appreciate your insights into how this all unfolded and how there were some who saw the writing on the wall long beforehand.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 6
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And I was one of those people, dagnabbit!In its original incarnation, the DSM was fine. It was only when it began to morph from its aftermarket status that I got into my "voice crying in the wilderness" mode. A very LOUD voice once the DSM begam the PRIMARY venue. But by then it was too late. (I used to say that the industry had become like a car careening down a cliff road in a thunderstorm, while everybody whooped and cheered. Everybody but me! And then the car went off the cliff, and people turned to me saying "You've got all the answers, smart guy! What do we do now?" To which I could only say I had the answers back when we were still on the road!)
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 588
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 7
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"Imagine if all magazines had decided to limit themselves to *just* one location to buy comics because TIME or LIFE or NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC obsessed readers love them some back issues."
And today, we can buy a copy of Life or Newsweek, where?
We can blame the DSM for where comic sales are today, but shouldn't we take a moment to question where comic sales would be today without it? The industry didn't decide to remove itself from the convenience store market. Convenience stores removed periodicals. The amount of shelf space has shrunk to almost nothing to make room for more profitable items for a different demographic.
Convenience stores number one focus for profit is still cigarettes, even with their own shrinking markets. That is followed by "other tabacco products", packaged beverages, beer, and "center store" (snacks, candy, etc). Convenience stores want items with a consistent inventory turn. Convenience stores do not want loitering shoppers (i.e. kids) which can lead to problems of inventory shrinkage, store cleanliness, and store image.
The comics didn't leave the convenience store industry, the convenience store industry dropped comic books.
Edited by Joseph Greathouse on 01 May 2017 at 12:06pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 8
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We can blame the DSM for where comic sales are today, but shouldn't we take a moment to question where comic sales would be today without it? The industry didn't decide to remove itself from the convenience store market. Convenience stores removed periodicals. The amount of shelf space has shrunk to almost nothing to make room for more profitable items for a different demographic. In fact, comic publishers DID make a deliberate choice to remove themselves from traditional venues. They viewed the DSM as more profitable, and I decried the decision at the time. Shrinking shelf space was only part of the consideration.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 9
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I feel like the Big Two have stumbled by having "there is no status quo!" as the status quo for much of the past decade. Regardless of who's wearing a costume, the combination of crossovers and universe-altering events finally burned out a lot of longtime readers while scaring off new readers. It's hard to start reading the Avengers when you're not sure if this is the version of the team that Marvel will get behind for a few years or if it's a stopgap version between crossover events.
DC's Rebirth was a nice course correction, and they seem to be playing the long game for the first time in ages. Look at what's made their characters so enduring and classic over the past 80 years, bring them back to basics, and just tell some good stories with them. I can pick up pretty much any current issue of a DC book and know that I'll catch up really quickly.
If Marvel can do the same, maybe with a return to "legacy" numbering and building up some creative teams who are in it for the long haul, they've got great characters and they've got fans who want to come back. I think they're like the 1980s Yankees right now--they've got the names, they've got the talent, they've got the history, but management needs to get serious if they want to get back to winning again.
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 588
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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"In fact, comic publishers DID make a deliberate choice to remove themselves from traditional venues. They viewed the DSM as more profitable, and I decried the decision at the time. Shrinking shelf space was only part of the consideration."
You certainly have more insight into the industry, and I didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. My ponderance was more to wonder if there was no direct market, would the convenience stores have dropped comics anyway as they have most periodicals and where would the industry be today?
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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If there was no direct market, Marvel and DC would have stopped publishing monthly comics entirely by the early 00's. Maybe they would have maintained a toehold in bookstores with archival collections and possibly OGNs.
In the past, it was frequently rumored that Marvel or DC would get out of publishing because the comic books divisions bring in "only" around the low nine figures annually, compared to the billions available from movies and merchandising. If publishing monthly comics required printing two or three times the anticipated sales, I don't think they'd hesitate to shut them down. However, thanks to the direct market, monthly comic publishing can be profitable and cost-efficient.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 01 May 2017 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 12
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I say it all the time. Less titles (a LOT
LESS) and more story. Due to the
interconnectivity to these books,
publishers build in the need to read a
good chunk of the line. Well, a 4 dollars
a book, collecting 75 titles isn't really
viable for most readers. Props to DC. Even
though the write themselves into these
corners, they seem to pair down their line
as they course correct. The consumer sees
this and responds accordingly.
It's possible that if a publisher could
pair down their line to 25 books, a reader
could actually buy the line for $100 to
$110 dollars a month. That's something a
loyal fan might be able to make happen.
But still the story has to be there. Back
during my golden age of collecting, I was
hooked in by the Fantastic Four, written
and drawn by our host. There it was two
issue stories, but overlapped into three
issues.it kept me coming back for the next
issue, but I didn't have to read a year's
worth of books to get one story.
Books that tell these off the wall
stories, like Captain America being a
Hydra Agent are probably interesting over
a two or three issue arch, but carry it
over a year and a half and you just aren't
getting value for your dollar any more.
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