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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5802
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| Posted: 15 July 2017 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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"If Marvel was selling toys and merchandising Squadron Supreme, I'm
sure DC would start getting litigious."
I'm pretty sure I've seen action figures of Hyperion. And of Gladiator
and Sentry (How many Superman rip-offs does Marvel need, btw?).
Edited by Eric Smearman on 15 July 2017 at 6:05pm
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Manuel Soler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 February 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 211
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| Posted: 16 July 2017 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 2
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If I don't remember incorrectly, I think I read about it somewhere, Marvel started creating female analogs (Ms.Marvel, Spider-Woman, She-HulK,...) for fear the competence could create/copyright similar characters.
Edited by Manuel Soler on 16 July 2017 at 12:56pm
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2293
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| Posted: 16 July 2017 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 3
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It gets ridiculous and ruins the "brand." There's at least two Robins too many at DC--and, for a few decades, one of them was dead! That changes Batman from "a cool loner" to some freak that continually puts children in life-threatening danger. (I would retcon Bruce taking in young Dick Grayson just to be kind to a kindred soul, and then that kindred soul discovers the Batcave and tries fighting crime himself, forcing Bruce to train him just to keep him alive.) Superman and Batman tried to keep Supergirl and Batgirl out of danger for as long as possible until they both earned their place. Those "simplistic" 50's and 60's tales often contained more common sense than the "savvy" stories that came after.
DC's families made a certain kind of sense (why wouldn't people be inspired to follow in the footsteps of inspirational heroes like Batman and Superman?), but Marvel's don't--with multiple characters going by the same name!
Why in the world would a powered Jane Foster ever be called "Thor"? Why would Sam Wilson continue being Captain America after Steve Rogers donned the uniform again? (Of course, why would he give up his own Falcon identity in the first place?) Why would a teenage girl or Victor Von Doom ever call themselves "Iron MAN"? (Doom's ego would NEVER deign to be called by anything but his own name?) They were calling She-Hulk and Amadeus Cho "Hulk" at the same time, not to mention two Spider-Mans running around. It's almost like Marvel is TRYING to be confusing and trash sales!
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 16 July 2017 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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Eric, I'd like to share that post with a friend of mine via e-mail. I'll be sure to credit you. If that's okay?
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2293
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| Posted: 16 July 2017 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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Sure!
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 16 July 2017 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 6
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Thanks.
You articulated my views on the "two heroes" thing that Marvel is doing. As you said, why would a teenage girl or Victor Von Doom call themselves Iron Man?
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Drew Spence
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 225
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| Posted: 17 July 2017 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 7
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In my mind, it was always a sign of jumping the shark or the franchise was so big, they wanted to grind it for more $$$$. Bionic Man, Bionic Woman. Although I liked Bionic Woman, it still felt like a grab for more.
Supergirl, I never bought into- didn't count.
Batgirl, I only knew from TV so it was okay for Robin to have a love interest although he never did anything about her- much to my disappointment, even as a kid.
I think the thing with taking on a used name plus trying to LOOK like the main character is a big problem. So you need to put on the SAME SUIT?
That ALWAYS feels like brand recognition for the fans.
I'd actually like to see a spin-off with the same powers, but totally different stance and mission- or is that too close to Image Comics?
Does 'passing the torch' count?
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Warren Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2016
Posts: 201
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| Posted: 17 July 2017 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 8
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I agree with Eric on many points. I think the multiple Super-, Bat- and Spider-people and others are mostly a marketing gimmick (or a means to avoid someone else ripping off your characters) and/or an attempt to please everyone ("We're introducing a new Captain Hero, but we don't want to upset long-time fans, so the old Captain Hero will continue to exist or the old one will come back and the new one will take another name.).
They can work if a writer takes a new approach with the concept. From what I've read, Superboy was portrayed at least initially as less experienced and seemed to care more about his personal life than the adult Superman at the time(for whom it seemed a distraction. "Looks like I have to save Lois/Jimmy/Perry again!")The early Supergirl stories seemed a bit more fanciful, and She-Hulk has usually been a different take on the Hulk character.
By the way, I recommend Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme series to those who might think it's just Marvel's version of the JLA. It's essentially a DC Imaginary story that suggests what might happen if the JLA set out to "make the world a better place." It came out years before "Identity Crisis" and is much less convoluted.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2293
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| Posted: 18 July 2017 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 9
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I personally liked SPIDER-WOMAN and SPIDER-GIRL, but they didn't seem "forced" (even though Spider-Woman's existence was decreed to protect the copyright). Spider-Girl was literally part of the "Spider-Man Family" but she seemed more organic than female Thor or teen Hulk--all three of which were first WHAT IF...? stories! (I wonder if Roy Thomas gets residuals on all these ideas. It seems like half of Marvel's present line-up first started as a WHAT IF...? !)
For some reason, the one Marvel hero who lends himself to the idea of a "family" never had one--Captain America! Given his (normal) standing in the Marvel Universe (and the fact that he was originally intended to be the first of many), you'd think there'd be all sorts of "Ms. Americas," "Kid Americas," and "Lt. Americas" running around! If half a dozen people at DC decide to dress like a bat (taking after a notorious and scary loner), you'd think there'd be at least that many at Marvel with a patriotic spirit.
Edited by Eric Jansen on 18 July 2017 at 7:31am
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Dale Lerette
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Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 18 July 2017 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 10
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As I read through this thread I recalled how much I enjoyed Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme series. I knew the Squadron was kind of an amalgam of DC/Marvel -- kind of. But I never got the impression Gruenwald was trying to DC-fy the Marvel Universe.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15816
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| Posted: 18 July 2017 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 11
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My simplest answer is I don't like superhero families.
She-Hulk is sufficiently different to the Hulk to justify an existence. The same goes for Robin and Batman. But multiple iterations on the same theme aren't a good idea though, I think.
When Robin grows up and then is replaced by another Robin, who then gets replaced, and on and on, it is a problem. And that's just Robin, with his unique costume and name! Throw actual Bat variants into the mix and it's way, way too much, especially for this weird figure of the dark.
Strangely enough, I'm down with the dogs though. Ace and Krypto I can live with. |
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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5482
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| Posted: 18 July 2017 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 12
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I don't know if I disliked them or there wasn't enough of a draw for me to justify buying their stories.
By the time I started reading comics the "families" seemed to be in those Giant 60cent/$1 issues. At my weekly allowance back then 3 comics outweighed the one.
I certainly didn't mind them as a guest star in my regular monthlies, and even bought the first issue of Man-Bat thinking there may be some connection.
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