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Topic: Do you like "families" of superheroes? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 23 July 2017 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

While trying to Google why Bob Hall left Squadron Supreme after nine issues, I found an older Byrne Robotics thread from 2011 that mentioned that JB and Jerry Ordway nearly did a Squadron Supreme series. Very interesting! Had never even heard of that before. I also didn't realize that JB drew the corner box illustration of Amphibian for SS #6 which was brought up in that thread. Also JB mentioned in that thread that Gruenwald had a lot of ideas for the series that were kind of cut off at the knees by Shooter's edict that every comic should tell a complete story. As much as I enjoyed that series, I imagine it would have been even better had Gruenwald been allowed to do the mini-series as he intended rather than having to retool the stories to fit Shooter's ever-changing edicts. 

Edit: Another thing I found interesting and rather amusing was JB bringing up that Gibbons referred to the grim n gritty comics that followed in Watchmen's wake as "glum." That's perfect!


Edited by Shane Matlock on 23 July 2017 at 6:31pm
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 3:34am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Adam Schulman - another consideration about DC super families is that, with so many reboots, there's nothing organic about them anymore. "We had Robin and Nightwing and Batgirl and Red Robin and Batwoman before the latest cosmic crisis - so of course we have to have every single book after the latest change!"

There's no organic growth about someone seeing Green Arrow and being inspired, and deciding to try to emulate the ace archer. Or about Wonder Woman finding someone who can be a partner or sidekick to her... it's just "Crisis done.. BAM! There they are!"
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Trevor Smith
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 4:58am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"I rather liked the Bob Hall art on the first 9
issues..."

**

I'll go one further and say that I prefer Hall's work on
SS to Dave Gibbons' work on Watchmen. To me, there's
just "something" missing in Watchmen - dynamism,
excitement, I dunno. I guess I just found it
technically good, but dull.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I rather liked the Bob Hall art on the first 9 issues but switching artists for the last three issues probably didn't help either. Not that Paul Ryan isn't a good artist and storyteller too, but it would've been nice to have gotten the same artist for all 12 issues of the mini-series.

***

Now that I think about it, the multiple-artist factor may have something to do with MIRACLEMAN never receiving the level of praise that WATCHMEN got (and gets). If, say, Alan Davis or John Totleben had drawn all 16(?) issues of MIRACLEMAN then it might have -- no pun intended -- eclipsed WATCHMEN's reputation.

As it stands I prefer MIRACLEMAN as a story, although it's inspired far too much "violence porn" in mainline superhero comics. In particular, see every story that James Robinson has written for DC for the last ten years or so, especially his unbearable JUSTICE LEAGUE: CRY FOR JUSTICE mini-series.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Miracleman would definitely have been improved by Alan Davis doing all of the first two parts of the comic but I'm not sure Totleben's art would have worked for the other stories as well as it did on Olympus. I definitely prefer Davis for the earlier parts of the story and Totleben for the third act in Olympus. 

I don't really agree with Trevor that Bob Hall's art in SS being better than Gibbons in Watchmen but there was definitely more dynamism and excitement in it, I think because the story called for it. Squadron Supreme was done to be more traditional superhero comics (although Gruenwald still managed to tell a very adult story and keep it all ages in the process) and Watchmen was something else.

That older Byrne Robotics thread I mentioned a few commments back started with someone asking if Watchmen would have worked as well with Bob Hall on art and Squadron Supreme with Gibbons on art. And I don't either one of them would have worked as well with different artists doing them.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

And that Justice League: Cry For Justice series written by Robinson that Adam mentioned, that's a perfect example of glum comics.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 24 July 2017 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Shane -- yep. It amazes me that the guy who wrote STARMAN has declined to such a degree. One of the few things I liked about the New 52 reboot is that it automatically negated all the awful things that Robinson did to Roy Harper!
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2017 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I do.
I do like Batgirl.
I do like Supergirl.
I do like the adventures of Superman when he was a boy.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2017 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Of course Barbara Gordon is the only Batgirl i really care about (even if Steph's series was fine)
And Dick Grayson is my Robin (even if Tim was a good one too).
 
... the little punk created by G Morrison was sometime funny, sometime boring. And i have no interest in Cass. Jason writen by Doug Moench was not bad, but Dick was the real deal.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 26 July 2017 at 3:37am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Bat-Girl was a neat innovation... Robin's character deserved a little love (yup, double entendre for you!) And then, the second version in Barbara Gordon seemed a good idea at the time as well... and no doubt, Infantino's art made her look pretty damned good as well!
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Trevor Smith
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Posted: 26 July 2017 at 5:14am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"I don't really agree with Trevor that Bob Hall's art in
SS being better than Gibbons in Watchmen"

**

Just to clarify, Shane, I very deliberately chose the
word "prefer" over "better" in my post.
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