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John Popa
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Joined: 20 March 2008
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 1
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It always felt like a DC thing to me and I was more a Marvel guy. I did like Spider-Woman, though, and actually really liked the second version that came out of the first Secret Wars.
As if often the case with these things, the ones that were in place when I started reading comics I was fine with but the newer ones seem more shoe-horned in.
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Wallace Sellars
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17669
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 2
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I initially took the title of the thread to ask "Do you like superhero families?" I
was all set to talk about the Fantastic Four before rereading it, and then
responding in the negative.
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Mitch Denoyer
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Posts: 131
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 3
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In the initial post, I read "Superson" as "Superperson." The idea of a character named Superperson sent a cold chill through my soul!
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Shane Matlock
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Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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And then, with the arrival of folk like my late buddy Mark Gruenwald, the blurring of borders became deliberate. Mark was a DC guy at heart, and once given the power, he did all he could to turn Marvel into DC. And others followed.
****** I always felt like his Squadron Supreme 12 issue mini-series was him doing DC characters, in this case the Justice League, in a very Marvel fashion. I don't understand why it's not ranked with Watchmen as being influential on the comics that came after it. Though not sure that's a good thing.
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Mike Norris
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm not sure pastiches like the Squadron Supreme should have ever been given the series treatment.
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Ron Grant
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Joined: 18 December 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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I initially took the title of the thread to ask "Do you like superhero families?" I
was all set to talk about the Fantastic Four before rereading it
-----------
Me too I set to talk FF,The Inhumans,Scott and Alex Summers,Wanda and Peitro.
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Stephen Churay
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Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 14 July 2017 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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I like the idea. As to whether or not I
want to read it, depends on the execution.
DC, right now with there Rebirth stories,
have a great opportunity to build a
Superman and Batman Family and make it
work again. So far, I'm on board.
On the other coast, Marvel has an
opportunity to build a Spider-Man Family.
I'd like to read that, but just from the
knowledge I've gathered, trying to decide
if this is something I want to read, they
haven't put it together correctly. They've
got new-ish characters that they've
already muddied and older ones that don't
resemble the characters I know. I have no
entry into this. The sad part is, it
could've worked, but you can't fit Legos
together that have been chopped up by a
lawn mower.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 15 July 2017 at 4:30am | IP Logged | 8
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"And then, with the arrival of folk like my late buddy Mark Gruenwald, the blurring of borders became deliberate. Mark was a DC guy at heart, and once given the power, he did all he could to turn Marvel into DC. And others followed."
=====================
I guess in comics, because there are only two significant publishers of superhero books, any attempt at cross-pollination ends up as inbreeding.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 July 2017 at 4:32am
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Dale Lerette
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Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 15 July 2017 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 9
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I really enjoyed the Fantastic Four run, especially through the Negative Zone from years ago. This group was always generally portrayed with good family dynamics -- not just a bunch of "supers"-. But I generally do not care for when they do Superman, "Superson" and "Superdog", Supergirl, Superwoman, and yadda yadda yadda. It's just seems too much and starts to feel silly IMO. More specifically it generally pulls me out of my Suspension of Disbelief and reminds me too much it's not real.
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Shane Matlock
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Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 15 July 2017 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 10
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I'm not sure pastiches like the Squadron Supreme should have ever been given the series treatment.
*****
Mike, it wasn't really ever given the series treatment until JMS did Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme which kind of fizzled out with him never finishing it and more recently with the Marvel series that started a year or two ago that got cancelled. Gruenwald just gave it a 12 issue mini-series treatment (and later a graphic novel).
But if Squadron Supreme as a pastiche didn't deserve 12 issues, why did Watchmen which was a pastiche of the Charlton characters? Granted, DC owned those characters too, but it was still started as pastiche.
Alan Moore has done quite a bit of pastiche though since Watchmen with Tom Strong and Supreme. I have to say I rather enjoyed all the comics I've mentioned, but not sure why Moore is often given a pass for what he does with pastiche while Marvel is taken to task for the Squadron Supreme. I think it all depends on what you do with it. If Marvel was selling toys and merchandising Squadron Supreme, I'm sure DC would start getting litigious.
It's not the only time Marvel has really done it either. The Shi'ar Imperial Guard were kind of an obvious Legion of Superheroes pastiche.
There has been the Avengers (and other Marvel characters) pastiche at DC here and there, but it's true they've never really done as much with them as Marvel has done with theirs.
Edit: DC has however sued a company into non-existence and plundered their characters for their own roster because of their pastiche nature. Shazam!
Edited by Shane Matlock on 15 July 2017 at 7:08am
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Steven Myers
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Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5624
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| Posted: 15 July 2017 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 11
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Like the Imperial Guard, the Squadron was created from characters who were derivatives of DC characters, but new characters were added that did not have an amalgam. After Mark Gruenwald, there was an effort to remove the "new" characters and return to the Justice League format.
I didn't like the recent Squadron Sinister, despite Pacheo's great art. A villainous Justice League ends up being the Crime Syndicate...
Besides, the Squadron maxi-series is awesome!
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Shane Matlock
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Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 15 July 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 12
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I loved that maxi-series, Steven and I think it deserves more credit than its gotten for leaving a huge shadow on the comics that came after it. I'm a pretty big fan of Gruenwald's Marvel oeuvre but I think Squadron Supreme is where he did some of his best work. (Though I also love his first few years on Captain America, especially the Serpent Society story, and also the Serpent Crown stuff in Marvel Two-In-One.)
Apologies for the thread drift.
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