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John Cole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 504
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| Posted: 07 September 2017 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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Don't forget the recent Fantastic Four flop where the Human Torch is now a black man.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
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| Posted: 07 September 2017 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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John Cole,watched that on Netflix last week...the one
where they swapped powers for afflictions,truly awful!
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 07 September 2017 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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Don't forget the recent Fantastic Four flop where the Human Torch is now a black man. ************************************************************ ********************** That was the least of the movie's sins.
Edited by Mike Norris on 07 September 2017 at 11:46pm
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 4
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Marvel got to be Marvel by doing the impossible, creating hit books and hit characters, one after the other for a stretch of five, six years. Marvel then coasted and wobbled until the late 70's, when another stretch of good fortune showed up as hit talent. Guys like JB, Frank Miller, Chris Claremont told stories that let Marvel coast again, creatively, until their unprecedented success in Hollywood.
What we are now seeing at Marvel Comics is the reverse of that ridiculously good fortune. The Ying to the Yang, so to speak. Corporate edicts that hamstring Marvel in using the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. Editors with a very strange sense of what the superhero genre is about. A readership that is not just shrinking, but on the verge of revolt against Marvel's marketing and editorial practices.
Marvel as a comic book publisher may not survive. I hope they don't drag the rest of American comics book down with them.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 08 September 2017 at 5:00am
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 5
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Corporate edicts that hamstring Marvel in using the Fantastic Four and the X-Men.
***
This is what irks me, the tail wagging the dog.
It's nothing new. Sandman couldn't be featured in the 90s Spider-Man cartoon because the then-unproduced film had plans for him. So a film that never got made (at least not until 2002) got to dictate what could appear in a cartoon that was unrelated.
Now it seems the tail is still wagging the dog, just in a different way.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 6
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If I got in a time machine and traveled to a comic book shop in the 90's and told them that Marvel would kill off Wolverine to spite Fox Studios, they would be more likely to believe that I'm a time traveler.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 7
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The "tai; wags dog" phenomenon is nothing new. Back inthe 70s I pitched an idea to Shooter, and he nixed it, saying another artist had something similar "in the works". Forty years later, that other project still had not appeared -- and since that artist died, it's not likely to!
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 8
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The "tai; wags dog" phenomenon is nothing new. Back inthe 70s I pitched an idea to Shooter, and he nixed it, saying another artist had something similar "in the works". Forty years later, that other project still had not appeared -- and since that artist died, it's not likely to!
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That's a shame.
Wonder if DC is the same? There's been some "tail wagging the dog" at times (in my view), i.e. SMALLVILLE not being allowed to feature Bruce Wayne, but if there is any tail wagging the dog - and I don't know for sure - it seems less than there is at Marvel.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 9
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The tail may be wagging the dog,but the powers that be
haven`t noticed the dog has mange!
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 10
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The "tail wags dog" phenomenon is nothing new. Back in the 70s I pitched an idea to Shooter, and he nixed it, saying another artist had something similar "in the works". Forty years later, that other project still had not appeared -- and since that artist died, it's not likely to!
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Boy, I'd love to see all the rejected pitches from JB and other masters of the field! I have an issue of ALTER EGO that laid out all the rejected pitches for CAPTAIN (SHAZAM) MARVEL at DC from people like JB and Alex Ross and others--and they ALL sounded more interesting than just about anything they ended up doing with the character for the last 30 years!
JB, any chance you can share some of your rejected pitches in a thread or gallery?
Edited by Eric Jansen on 08 September 2017 at 9:55am
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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Wonder if DC is the same?
---
Less so. Whatever's going on in movies, cartoons, etc. doesn't seem to affect DC's actual comics that much.
There's now a character named Diggle in GREEN ARROW, Wonder Woman's costume is now very, very close to the movie version, Gar Logan is being drawn much like his TEEN TITANS GO! counterpart...but that's about it, I think.
Oh, I think Aquaman is getting long hair and a beard again, but no costume change or personality change.
Harley Quinn's "look" had already changed for the worse before the SUICIDE SQUAD movie came out.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 08 September 2017 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 12
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Thanks, Adam.
Other than SMALLVILLE not being allowed to use Bruce Wayne, which I think might have been cool, it seems that various entities are allowed to be autonomous.
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