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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Over in the DISCOVERY thread there is a small debate over that series handling of this character. The consensus there and elsewhere is that the interpretation of Mudd is too "dark" for such a flamboyant buffoon.

Not going to comment on that directly, since I have not seen the show, and have no interest. But it does seem that some people are forgetting the Harry of "Mudd's Women" was several shades darker than how he was portrayed in "I, Mudd". He was a career criminal with a long record, and upon whom 22nd Century psychiatric treatment had not been successful. And there were strong implications that he was a murderer!

All that said, I assume DISCOVERY will follow the new rules and make Harry Gay?

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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Nah, bisexual.
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Luke Styer
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
And there were strong implications that he was a murderer!

I don't think I ever picked up on the implication that he was a murderer.  What was I missing?
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I also had to look for that one and I think this is what Mr Byrne refers to. In Mudd's Women it was revealed that just before Mudd took the ship Kirk and the crew encountered in the episode that its captain had suddenly passed away just before its last flight.

Did I get that one correct?


Edited by Marten van Wier on 09 October 2017 at 4:04pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Yup.
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The Mudd in 'I, Mudd' may as well be a completely different character as far as his portrayal in 'Mudd's Women'. The first Mudd was very cutthroat, an implied killer, a drug-dealer/pusher, pimp, and willing to sacrifice the lives of the Enterprise crew all for the sake of making a buck. The second Mudd? Yucking it up and hamming it up with Kirk only out of self-preservation and played as a buffoon otherwise.
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Luke Styer
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Huh. I've never picked up on that element of "Mudd's Women." I'm rewatching Star Trek, but I've just hit third season, so I'm really tempered to go back and watch a first season episode.
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 09 October 2017 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Sounds like you're a little curious about the new show John
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 3:13am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Not even a little bit.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I guess I fell for the more affable conman I imagined Harry Mudd to be as I rather like that take on the character.
One who is sneaky, manipulating, and deceiving, but who would never even consider killing a person.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 4:46am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Well Marten, you always got Cyrano Jones.

Edited by Doug Centers on 10 October 2017 at 6:35am
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Cyrano Jones is not really a conman, just a trader who didn't have all the details on his latest merchandise.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Curiously enough, as I do not have permission to use the likeness of Harry, I also cannot use Cyrano Jones.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

So I guess Harry is going to look like Kirk for a while longer?
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Luke Styer
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I've read somewhere that Gerrold intended to use Mudd in the Cyrano Jones spot, but wasn't able, so we got Jones. Can't vouch at all for the veracity, though.

I also heard, decades ago, that Iman's Marta in Star Trek VI was originally to have been miss, but Carmel was unavailable. I'm almost certain that isn't true because Carmel died in 1986, long before Trek VI, and while that would have fallen under the category of "small world syndrome, I can't help but think it would have been awesome to have seen Mudd pop up in that sequence, though I'm never going to complain about an appearance by Iman.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

So I guess Harry is going to look like Kirk for a while longer?

I have loose permission to recast Harry, so I could wrap up the Kirk face arc -- but I'm not sure where to take that. I don't really have any actor friends who look like Mudd!!

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Luke Styer
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I'm rewatching "Mudd's Women." On revisiting I realized that I hadn't "missed" the mention of the real Walsh's death, I just took Mudd's story that Walsh had died at face value, I suppose because the computer called him out on all his other lies.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

The computer is not presented as a lie detector. It can report "just what's on the record." No reason to assume it would even know Walsh was dead, since Mudd had stolen his identity. Thus it would be unlikely to "call [Mudd] out".

That's how I read it at 16, anyway!

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Luke Styer
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I actually got the sense that the Computer was acting as a lie detector because it already knew that Mudd was Mudd, not Walsh, but there were no indications of any sort of biometric identification process.

"Checking against the record" is probably a better reading because if the computer can easily act as a lie detector that short circuits a lot of possibilities. That's presumably why Troi's empathy was so spotty on TNG.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Go with "checking against the record". Mudd says he's Walsh, and the computer instantly knows he isn't. In fact, nothing the computer says suggests anything beyond "checking the record".
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I have loose permission to recast Harry, so I could wrap up the Kirk face arc -- but I'm not sure where to take that. I don't really have any actor friends who look like Mudd!!



The current mindset in television and movies would be "Why not make him a woman?!"
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 October 2017 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Harriet Mudd?
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Luke Styer
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Posted: 12 October 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

All this Mudd talk inspired me to pick up my copy of J.A. Lawrence's Mudd's Angels, which I ordered from Amazon Marketplace a while back, but never actually read.

I'm almost through the adaptation of "Mudd's Women," and I never read any of the Blish novelizations, of which this is a "continuation" by Blish's widow following his death, so I don't know if this is representative, but the beat-for-beat translation to prose seems weird in a time when I can literally watch any episode almost any time and place on my phone.

Also perhaps a "sign of the times," in his first appearance Mudd is described as "an obscenely fat man." And nearly every descriptive tag calls him fat. In 60s TV terms, yeah, Carmel was chunky, but in 2017 terms he doesnt strike me as unusually big. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 October 2017 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

I'm almost through the adaptation of "Mudd's Women," and I never read any of the Blish novelizations, of which this is a "continuation" by Blish's widow following his death, so I don't know if this is representative, but the beat-for-beat translation to prose seems weird in a time when I can literally watch any episode almost any time and place on my phone.

Those Blish adaptations were not "beat-for-beat". He used a combination of different scripts for each episode, from first draft to shooting script, and even folded in elements of his own mythology. "Miri" included a reference to the "Cold Peace" from his novels, as well as a different description of Miri's planet. "Who Mourns for Adonais" had a different ending. Etc.

It was quite frustrating at the time, for me as a reader, as these "adaptations" were my only way to "keep" the episodes -- at least until my parents bought me a reel-to-reel tape recorder for Xmas!

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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 29 October 2017 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Harriet Mudd?



Or maybe a hairy Maude...
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